View Full Version : status quo ain't no more...
04-26-2004, 10:53 PM
for those who still believe that there will be a separate standard for girls and guys, especially that "...when they turn 15 and the guys get bigger..." routine:
USAHIL Regionals in Ft. Collins over the weekend...in 14's you actually had to stop mid-sentence, and look at hair and other visual cues to see if you were talking about a male player or a female player, if you were to call to a teammate something like "Stay with...him/her!"
Nations-Tobin Polar Bears and Rocky Mountain Quickchange players came in all sizes and genders. While the level of team ability varied, you couldn't tell gender by the individual skill levels. You needed to first check hair, and size to see if the player you were about to say something about was male or female.
I assert once again, if girls have the same opportunities to develop their ability, in the same environment with the boys, then the girls will be just as good as the boys...count on it...
This year, the girls are "invading" the male numbers up through the bantam division...in the next few years, it will happen all the way through the midgets as well...
You might disagree, but remember where you heard it, and please give me the footnote when you quote me...
<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>
04-27-2004, 05:56 PM
you know something funny, there are alot of guys here in the atlanta metro area that look alot like girls from their hair cut.......so that looking at the hair thing wouldn't work very well.....just for a laugh
05-01-2004, 05:52 PM
"...if girls have the same opportunities to develop their ability, in the same environment with the boys, then the girls will be just as good as the boys...count on it..."
On the RMQC 12's & 14's, I thought the same thing happened that occurred on our N-TP'Bear 14's & 17's...the Colorado girls, of course, were playing on teams with greater overall skill level than the Texas Girls were, but in each case, it was the girls who were the go-to players, the girls who made the big plays, the girls who were the team leaders on all parts of the floor...in fact, the boys had to work to keep up on these teams, eh?...I thought the girl GK for the 17's black team was pretty good, except that she spent too much time running trash out of her mouth at her opponents...
Geez, such a far cry from even a year ago, let alone two or three...
We would really, really, really encourage and support the RMQC gang to participate in the USAHIL tourney this year. You guys would do real well, and our girls can play on multiple divisions...
Last year, Caitlin & Arlene became the first players in USA Hockey history (ice or inline) to play in three divisions of national tournament play in the same year...this year Caitlin, Arlene, and Justine plan on playing in five divisions...
Also hope to see as many girls as possible at the 14's USAHIL NTP Development camp...
The curve is becoming geometric...
See you guys out on the blue floor!
<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>
05-01-2004, 09:26 PM
First : Not to compare, but Narch's Women's and Girl's Divisions and AAU'/USARS women's and girl's divisions feature THE very best female players in the country from ages 12 and up. I believe Rich and the QC Blizzard girls have experienced hockey at the USAHIL level and would like to test there abilities against the Cal Selects, Tour Bordercats, Tour Jaguars and even my small town GEAR Mid America program.
Second: I had more then one 12u eligible female play in 3 female divisions of Junior Olympics last year; and 2 of those played in 12u, 14u and 17u boys also. 6 divisions in one Junior Olympics, 3 boys and 3 girls all in 10 days and 30+ games. Awesome.
One of the Detroit girls even led the 12u, 16u and 19u female divisions in scoring (not from my team, but she currently plays for the Lady Bordercats and is a 1st year 14u female).
By the Way, I was wondering how many of your talented ladies were picked to try out in Huntington Beach this weekend for TEAM USA under the tutelage of Cal Selects Coach Jeff Prime?
Just MY opionion, but maybe Rich would like to give his daughter and her teammates the opportunity to be "seen" for such opportunities in the future.
If the women who play hockey in this country want to play in the Olympics, possibly in 2008 (Beijing, China) or definately in 2012: THEY WILL HAVE TO PLAY IN EITHER USA CHAMPIONSHIPS OR JUNIOR OLYMPICS OR THE USARS WOMEN'S TOURNAMENTS TO EVEN BE CONSIDERED.
Until a legislative change is made by Congress, or the USOC, AAU/USARS is where you need to play.
GEAR Mid America
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Defense1st on 05/01/04 08:31 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
05-02-2004, 01:58 PM
"If the women who play hockey in this country want to play in the Olympics, possibly in 2008 (Beijing, China) or definately in 2012: THEY WILL HAVE TO PLAY IN EITHER USA CHAMPIONSHIPS OR JUNIOR OLYMPICS OR THE USARS WOMEN'S TOURNAMENTS TO EVEN BE CONSIDERED"
my opinionated two cents:
Penny number 1:
That USARS presently (still) refuses to operate a structured, developmental program of opportunities, open to all players, for the USARS Women's National team, continues to be a problem. That you must "be seen," and "picked" to attend the final team camp, maintains a barrier to hundreds of players who cannot participate in the demanded format. The single-offering of an open try-out camp, one that is largely unavailable for three-fourths of the country, also makes it extremely difficult for most players to attend.
Rather than chastising/encouraging Rich to "get his girls over there," it would be much better if the USARS/AAU program would organize, and open up the opportunity to all...
If the Olympics hosts inline hockey in 2012, that would be a giant step forward. At the present, however, there is a table somewhere in Las Vegas that is barely taking money at 50/50 that 2012 is the year...There are still too many barriers at the IOC and other levels to make 2012 a certainty...
Even if FIRS, AAU (maybe we should be honest, and stop even using the USARS name here; we all know they got out of the job two years ago, eh?) and the IOC should make the Olympics happen, there is still the IIHF, which isn't going to close up shop on their world championships...We can expect the IIHF Women's worlds to be here by 2006...and of course, participation in that world championships, as a member of Team USA, would need to come through participation in the open tiered, structured, organized, series of regional development camps, the National Sports Festival, and the Team USA training camp itself, all operated by USA Hockey Inline (USAHIL).
It continues to be a good thing that the two non-profit, USOC affiliated, "governing" national associations offer more and more opportunities for girls and women in this country.
<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>
05-04-2004, 10:07 AM
Fair enough: however, USA Hockey has been told by the USOC to cease and desist form using TEAM USA name in any manner in public, verbally or in print as they are NOT the NGB of INLINE hockey, only ice hockey.
In addition AAU/USARS, have 40+ regionals in all parts of the country, so to infer that 3/4 of the inline community cannot be seen is short sighted.
I will admit that the criteria as it now stand (that you must play either Junior Olympics, or USARS USA Championship) to be picked for the tryout camps is incredibly limiting; but if you know the rules far enough in advance and you want to have a chance of being chosen to wear the TEAM USA jersey and honor your country then make your "travel" schedule around these 2 events.
Is it all inclusive? Absolutely NO.
Is that fair? Also, a no.
But it is what the rules are on this day and we all have to abide by them.
It has already been decided that next year (2005) there will be major changes. Regional camps (N, S, E, and W) and 4 teams picked in each age group (10u, 12u, 14u, 17u,-Boys; 18u girls) for the World Inline Cup. Plus the Men's and Women's teams. It is just a matter of setting the formats.
Can you tell me how my 11 year old son would get to play on the IIHF recognized team, picked by USAHIL for the next version of the IIHF World Championships? Your quote is below: how does he get to do this? (Remembering he is only 11)
"would need to come through participation in the open tiered, structured, organized, series of regional development camps, the National Sports Festival, and the Team USA training camp itself, all operated by USA Hockey Inline (USAHIL). Or does this only apply to a specific age group, like 17u or Juniors?
It really does not matter what role USARS or AAU has; the program is ultimately run by Keith Knoll and he is willing to accept and listen to all proposals for change; by emailing him at [email protected]
Send him an email with YOUR proposal on how to pick the legally sanctioned TEAM USA in all age division and genders.
BTW, the Olympics is really closer then you think.
05-05-2004, 03:29 PM
I am not sure if Phil is just being gracious, really wants the info, or is acting as my shill, but here goes, for anybody who would like to know...
Step 1: for players 11-14, the USAHIL National Team coaches, Dan Brennan and Aaron Kriss, host four regional weekend camps. The scope of these camps is instructional, each camp can hold 96 skaters and 16 goalkeepers. There is position-specific skills instruction, and well as group and team-level environments. The camps are open to any player who wishes to register and attend. The obvious added benefit to attendance at these activities is that the player gets to see how the national team coaches work, and the coaches become familiar with the players, and have the direct opportunity to see progressive development in the player over several years. Last year ('03) there was an east coast and a west coast camp each, this year there are four, next year there will be more, possibly as many as 8.
Step 2: The Junior National Team Development Camp is a try-out camp, open to any 15-18 year old who wants to sign up. There have been four camps each year for the past four years. From the 112 players at each camp, 12 skaters and 2 goalkeepers are chosen to represent the "East-West-North-South" on teams that participate in the National Youth Sports Festival.
When the IIHF should host its inaugural Junior World Championships, the US Junior National Team will be chosen from participation at the Sports Festival. Over the past few years, there have been additional foreign teams that have played with the four US Regional teams at the Sports Festival. Presently, 2 or more players from the Sports Festival are also chosen to attend the US Senior (adult) National Team Camp.
Step 3: Each Year, there are two or more Open Try-out Camps for the US National Team. These are open to any player 18+ who cares to try out. From the try-out camps, several players are chosen to attend the US National Team Camp, from which the final US 18-man (I think) team is selected.
Step 4: The US National Team Training Camp is held just prior to the IIHF World Championship. Players are invited to this camp, based on participation in the above activities, the USAHIL Cup (adult national championships), as well as previous years' National team members.
Players who attend the Sports Festival are invited with expenses paid, as well as those of the US National team training camp...Over the past several years, there have been a couple of junior players who have made it all the way up this ladder of success. The "Bantam 14's" camp component of the program was just started last year. In any case, this is obviously a structured, defined, step-by-step progression that allows for maximum effort by any player to reap rewards.
We note that players from our local rec program have made the Sports Festival regional team, both as rostered players, and as designated alternates. Last year we had 8 players travel to California for the Bantam Camp.
All this information, and more, is available to anybody on the USA Hockey web site...
Hope to see everybody out on the blue floor this year...
<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>
05-05-2004, 05:40 PM
I really dont like to be picky BUT I am a girl and I really dont like the fact that you used the word "invading" describing the females that want to play with the guys. Like I said I dont like to be picky. I also wanted to point out that Danny said that if we had the same opportunities to develop our ability, in the same environment as the boys, then the we will be just as good as the boys. I have to say that he is correct. In other cased though some girls are just good and have the talent to be as good as the boys to start out with.
05-05-2004, 06:50 PM
Like I said I dont like to be picky. I know what your saying. Thanks for clearing that up.
05-05-2004, 11:33 PM
Yeah, that was "irony of statement," which we all learned in English class, eh?
H72, please let me assure you that you won't find two guy coaches more dedicated to girls' hockey than either Coach Rich or myself...and we have both been at this for many years.
In fact, two of Rich's girls played with our team at USAHIL Nationals last year, were stand-out performers, Mikela even made national all-tournament team...
I have been at this so long, I even remember when I had to listen to an irate, idiot parent ( a woman, no less) scream at me that, because I gave girls the floor for an extra, all-girl game once-a-week in our rec league, I was discriminating against the boys because that gave the girls more games than the boys...
I just want the girls to keep playing, and all the good things will happen by themselves...
The original post in this thread was to state that it was highly noticeable that the Rockey Mountain Quickchange teams and the Nations-Tobin Polar Bears teams were not only heavily laden with girls, it was the girls on these teams that were the captains, and the standout players, and this was even in the 14's and 17's!!!
I highlight this because I happen to know that these two programs, along with the Cal Select program, and Phil Steur's Gear MidAmerica program really do give girls equal opportunities, and look what happens when you do...its magic...
Keep on playing, see you out on the blue floor...
<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>
05-06-2004, 01:03 AM
Thank you for the complimnet about all of our girls programs. There are many more dedicated FEMALE Roller Teams/ Programs sprouting up every day: lets include Mark Vittese and the Tour Jaguars, Mike Szandzik and the Lady Bordercats (Honeybaked AAA ice team in 14u); Michelle Hernandez and her assistant Stephanie at Skateplex in Sterling Heights, Michigan have start a program for girls with one 8u rec team and in 4 seasons have 5 girls teams and the Little Caesers Ice hockey girls (12 or 14u?) team playing roller in their facility. They are called the Cheetah Girls for travel and Blue Angles I believe in house league. Team Mission at High Velocity coached by Jeff Bond and Chad Roy is the Honeybaked 16u Ice team. Total Roller Hockey in Wixom, Michigan has a 16u girls team and also a womens team coached by Jim Gortley. There are the Herricanes in the Carolina's (Defensegirl22, Laura Lischwe's team), the Pink Wings and the Ellington Ells in Florida. (Nicole Parks, Kristen Sirangelo, Sasha Johannis, Rose Della Russo, et al.) Mike Hagle and the Eagles of Cincinnati (Patricia, Denise, Jennifer Hagle, Katie Fischer, Marina Orekov
Ice and roller girls are playing more and more in each sport and that is a good thing; it can only help to grow the sport and prove that on equal ground girls can compete with boys.
On the NTDP, I did want the info, but my actual question was how can MY 11 year old son go to a WORLD tournament this year (2004) with TEAM USA (the only official TEAM USA, recognized in Roller Hockey) if he does not play (Junior Olympics, Disney and/or USARS Championships in 2003) and get picked by USARS/AAU's selection committee to attend and compete at their Junior Prospect Camp and Tryout??
With USAHIL method of development; the players do not get to play on an international level in the TEAM USA jersey until they are 18+.
You also noted in Step 4 that the players who get all the way through the 1st 3 steps are THEN considered for step 4 (that makes it an exclusive or controlled group developed from steps 1-3 and NOT an open group to anyone who wants to compete for a spot).
In no way am I saying either method is right or wrong, better or worse. And I truly believe that "politics" and "favoritism" rears its ugly head in close talent decisions in both USAHIL and AAU/USARS.
It is unfortunate that this happens; someday maybe we all can get on the same page.
Still my 11 year old would not get to play on the IIHF World Team until he is 18+ with USAHIL; but this year he will wear the TEAM USA jersey he earned from the USARS/AAU tryout camp at US Blades in Michigan 2 weeks ago. He earned with his play. he will get to go to USARS USA Championships at the Skateplex in July (1-5) to practice with the other 11 players and 2 goalies that earned their spots on that team (10u). And the same for a team of 12+2 for 12u and 14u and 16u; and 18u GIRLS and 18+ Women and JUNIORS and 18+ Mens. They will all get chance to play either in the FIRS tournament in London, Ontario, Canada or for the youth teams the World Inline games (July 6-11) at the saem location.
Each year the USARS/AAU will try and improve on their format and their tryouts and their camps, led by Peter Dale of USA Clinics and the Coach of the Junior TEAM USA , www.usaclinics.com).
Every year they have grown in members (Sorry, Mr. Mark Ellis of Sealweenies, the AAU/USARS are not dead and are continuing to grow in #'s). They have already surpassed their total membership #'s from 2003 and the roller season is just getting into full swing.
Danny, even you are having a regional June 11-13th at your rink.
Give them a chance............
Maybe our co-ed teams will even play each other at Disney in the 12u. (I have 5-6 girls on that roster); and my 10u boys goalie, Rachel Teafatiller is from TTTTTTexas, as well as Megan Gault ( I believe you might know who she is) is from TTTTexas for my 12u boys and 16u girls. I am also honored to have Ashley Richards for Disney and hopefully JO's and maybe even Candice Moody. TTTTexas sure seems to produce good female hockey talent.
Its only a few short weeks. C Ya soon, Dan.
Gear Mid America
05-16-2004, 05:18 AM
I really agree with what your saying, it really bugs me when people go on about the standards of boys being better than that of girls. I think people are just to used to seeing male players and because of this people are reluctnat to let us get invovled. But the more we do the better we'll get and the more they'll see how wrong they are!
tnx for your post
06-24-2007, 11:00 PM
This year, my team reached the final versus a team which had 2 female goaltenders ... tho we won 15-3 ...the girls kicked some serious ass in the net.Their defense was a mess that day and we were especially inspired.All this to say those 2 girls play with an entire team of men.Ages ranging from 16 to 30.They grabbed some slaps, fast wristers...the works.Obviously, here in Portugal, girls are allowed to play with men.No age references.They´re though, wicked, and some even throw their weight around.They have no pitty from us.Only respect.Too bad they´re not enough for a whole-woman team.Would be interesting to see what they´d do...
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