Tour Beemer

[sghcky13]

This goes out to anyone that owns or has skated on the new tour skates (red max, blue max, beemer, etc.) What do the frames feel like. I know the design of it is to allow for a player to hold speed, but how do they turn and accelerate. I am looking for people who use these skates at a high level of play. I play travel hockey and need these skates to perform really well. Thanks for all the help.

[Garrison]

Good luck getting any info from anyone. I've had a post up about these skates since the 21st of March. I've seen a few posts where people talk about them but so far nobody seems to own a pair. At least no one that will show up here and talk about it. I would like to know more about these skates as well. I'm considering buying them too.

[Colby39]

From what I've heard on other boards, Tour's new technology and design is due to teh fact that Mission own the patent on the Hi-Lo chassis, and they woldn't let Tour jack their design, thus the Sensor chassis a year ago and the Beemer chassis now. I highly doubt that 4 80mm wheels will increase speed while maintaining a decent turning radius. That and Tour skates have never fit my feet well, so...

Lemieux fan 4 life

[MDE3]

I just talked to one of my son's team mates on his PIHA Major team who got the Beemers a week ago or so, and he says he loves them, and definitely feels he is faster...says he is getting used to the feel for agility, but doesn't think it will be a big problem...said he can really feel the extra push off.

[Garrison]

Yes but that's just guesswork and personal bias. I think what we are looking for is some real personal experience with the skate like the previous post. If you haven't actually tried the skate you can't say what effect the new chassi has or how the 4 80mm wheel setup works out. I would like to hear from people with experience on this skate how it fits and performs. What's the break in like? How do the sizes work out? Is it as fast as they claim? Is it really comfortable? Ect.

[sghcky13]

Haha....mission does not have the patent to hilo frames. they don't even make their own frames. ccm has hilo frames and so does bauer. Tour uses labeda chasis' and whatever technology they come out with is what Tour will design (with labeda) their boots around. It's a group thing. And four 80mm wheels will allow you to hold your speed, thats why speed skaters have 5 of them. I have a couple of friends that I just saw recently at a tournament and they had beemers. they said they loved them and had no problems turning. Garrison (I think that is your sn) I would suggest buying the skates.

[MDE3]

Actually according to Mission they do own the rights to the Hi/Lo frames, which is one of the reasons it is no longer offered by Tour. Mission did not develop this design, another company held the rights to this design and sold them to Mission....I believe it was someone other than Labeda, who actually was the company credited with introducing the Hi/Lo design, although the other company also marketed their version under the Kusak name.

[MDE3]

The sizes on which the 80 mm wheels will fit are limited to a size 7 skate or larger I believe (Tour). Below that size they are using 76 mm wheels. Because of the need to cut a groove in the sole of any boot on which these chassis will be mounted to allow the use of an 80 mm wheel under the front sole, in order to maintain the forward pitch and overall height of the skate...it is unlikely that many will be sold for retrofit.

[sghcky13]

labeda used to make hi/lo chasis for mission for the old old VSI's. I mean I haven't called mission or anything but I see lots of other skates with hi/lo chasis' on them so I am not sure if mission owns any patent. Also if you notice the old tour fishbones and all the skates that year where hi/lo. So if mission did buy a patent then it must have been recent. Do they also have a patent for their silly shock (boing) skates ?

[wathockey00]

If Mission holds the rights to the Hi-Lo design then why wouldn't they protect their patent integrity by going after companies like Nike/Bauer, Nexed, Gear, Easton, Sherwood, Redstar, Suregrip (Wedge Frame) and even Tour with their low-end stuff are still using Hi-lo. There not because if Mission owns anything it's probably just the name Hi-Lo because if you get any skates or frames from the companies above there are named things like Bi-Level and Wedge or just lists the wheel sizes. New technology like the Labeda Hummer frames and Rocker improvments are going to eventually make the Hi-Lo design obsolite so if companies were really smart they work on developing new technologies instead of focusing only on what alreadt exists.

Wayne Gretzky
You'll miss 100% of the shots you never take. <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by wathockey00 on 04/22/04 05:44 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[chrisg21]

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; There not because if Mission owns anything it's probably just the name Hi-Lo because if you get any skates or frames from the companies above there are named things like Bi-Level and Wedge or just lists the wheel sizes&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

You know that is an interesting point. I tried to look up the Hi-Lo patent, and while I found several patents belonging to Mission Hockey, the Hi-Lo was not one of them. If you get the Hockey News, the Roller Hockey preview from April 20th has a page of advertising from Mission, where they talk about how they were frist to develop the "Hi-Lo" chassis. It never mentions the words patented, nor lists a patent number. If you look at the frame pictured, no where does it say patented, but next to its Hi-Lo designation it does have the trademarked logo. If you read the text underneath the ad, no mention of Patents, but there is a mention of the Hi-Lo being a registered Trademark.

Justin has said in the past that there is a patent, and even the Sensor infringes on it, so I am really not sure. Can ANYONE supply the patent numbers?


chris

[MDE3]

I believe the patent does not refer to "Hi Lo"..which as you correctly surmised is a tradename, not a patented design. I believe the patent refers to a "split level" design referring to multiple planes of the axles relative to the floor.

I know Mission ..or at least Justin who is I believe their product development manager, has claimed on multiple occasions that Mission owns this patent, and others do not have the right to use it....or if they do, they would pay a royalty..very common in business..usually about 5% of the retail price of the item.

Try looking up "patent on "split level" chassis"..maybe that would be more successfull.

I believe Labeda supplied the first HI Lo chassis' sold retail on Mission skates, in 1997, but Labeda was also selling these as aftermarket chassis before Mission offered them. We had a converted Mission Team VSI skate with a Labeda HiLo about 2- 3 months before Mission introduced their new line at USARS Nationals in Iowa in July of 1997. I believe the "Generator" and "Penetrator" chassis came out on Mission skates in 1998.

Kuzak was also selling their version, although that was designed by another company..and called the "split level", or "Split Chassis" I think.....I believe the other company whose name escapes me now, may have been the original patent holder for the design.

[sghcky13]

yeah, mission had labeda make their chasis' and I think they still do (I am not sure just a guess), but redstar, and kuzak are at least two other companys that use "split level" design.

[andtpo21]

I have just recently started wearing a pair of "beemers"(what a name....). This is the first skates I have worn that aren't mission so I expected some trouble with the brand switch.....but anyhow my thoughts so far are this...1. the speed everyone talks about is there. You can definately feel a difference in the acceleration, and they seem to hold that speed longer when you are just coasting......but don't expect to break records....2.Turning seems decent, I don't really see any difference from my missions other than it feeling slightly different. 3.Stopping is what I am most impressed with so far. I really like how they feel when you really put on the brakes, they have a good solid stop. My theory is that with the bigger wheels on the front you are getting more wheel surface area touching the floor, therefore the stops are more solid. Whatever it is it works. I don't have any real complaints so far, but I have only had them for a couple weeks. I guess I would like the boot to fit my foot a little bit better than it does, it doesn't seem to be as form fitting to my foot as my old skates...but that could change as they get broke in.

[darrin]

Mission have aquired the rights to the Hi-Lo, and took out an injunction at the end of the last year to stop CCM and Tour selling skates with the Hi-Lo.

Hence Tour with the new Beemer chassis and CCM with its new D3 chassis which replaces the Hi-Lo on it's Externo skates.

I assume the reason Mission didn't target other brands is that they had such a small market share they weren't precieved as a threat.

Bauer/Nike must have paid up to use it. As an aside it's intresting to note that Bauer/Nike have dropped the rocker chassis that they made such a big deal over for the past few years.

[sghcky13]

they dropped the rocker because it wasn't that good, kinda like the mission shock skates....haha

[chrisg21]

Actually the rockers are very good for what they were designed for. They provide a smooth transition between ice, and off-ice conditioning. The skating stride is nearly identical between the two, and the rocker allows the ice player to seamlessly go between the two sports. The rocker does have limitations, and the most glaring limitation is the stopping ability since there are only three wheels in contact with the surface versus the four of a flat framed chassis.

Comparing the Rocker to the Vibe is a joke. the rocker does what it set out to do, and is a viable option for many players. The Vibe was pure gimmick, and that's why it is gone. The Rocker may not have gained mass acceptance, but for the ice player who doesn't play roller exclusively, it is ideal. There are still many players who prefer the Rocker to flat frame technology. It was never just a gimmick...

chris

[sghcky13]

the vibe and the rocker were desgined to do the same thing, provide only three wheels touching the ground while accelerating, turning, stoping, etc. They are both discontinued, and no one plays with flat frames anymore (hardly) Most everyone swears by hi-lo chasis' now.....

[TourDragon91]

Go with Tour Beemers. I have been skating on these for sometime now and they are definitely the best skate I have ever used.
Sure the 2003 skates were nice and fit well but the new line is 10 times comfortable. It was hard to top last yrs skates but some how they did it.
I recommend the new 2004 Blue Max or Beemer skates. There is a huge improvement with speed and grip, the front two wheels are recessed into the outsole.
The new LoBoy system has all 80MM wheels, yet your still close to the skating surface because of the recessed wheels. HUGE advantage with he Hummer frames.

[bagurk]

thanks for the comments but...
we know the theory of the skates (speed/grip improvement)!

tell us about the manouverability and whether there is a pay off for speed.

nobody wants the skates if they manouver like speed skates.

OH btw the 2003 skates good and nice fit !?!?!?!?!?!? u must have some interesting feet.

[urukhai74]

I just spoke with Tour today, there is a guy there that is great to talk to concerning the new skates. He said that the Humers feel fine for general rolling, meaning that just putting around on them you will not notice a difference. His concern was the turning and transitions. He said that at first it was different because there was just a lot more grip than usual, which he had to adjust to, but after that, he did not notice anything negative about the new chassis. Placing 76mm wheels on them, will also help with turning, if the 80mm wheels are just too large for a persons skating style. That is what I intend to do. I am going to buy the RedMax and see how they work. If they work well, I will buy the BlueMax or the Beemer.
Looking at the chassis compared to a normal Hi-Lo, it looks a lot lower in the front and then higher in the back, so the pitch of the boot attached to this chassis may have the same feel and performance of a Hi-Lo. The Tour 962 and 902 came with a Hi-Lo, but the degree of the pitch was almost flat compared to the Mission and other Hi-Lo's I have worn. I guess the only way to find out, is to buy a pair! If I don't like them, I can always return them. Hehe!

I will of course post all the information I can about how they feel and if I think they are as good or better than a Hi-Lo.

I play Defense and I play "B" League Roller and if there is an issue with them, it will be painfully obvious!! :-O

I expect to have the skates in the next few days and I plan on playing a lot of pick up to check them out!