Male Sexism

[JustaGirl]

I'm a girl that has been playing hockey with the boys for over 10 years. The best way to hang with em is to not complain about sexism. If the boys wanna call you a bitch, let them- guys rag on each other all the time and if you show them that you dont care- they will treat you with more respect. Guys hate to feel like they have to "behave" around you on the rink- just take it easy, kick ass, and they will accept you if you can actually skate. Calling them sexist and complainig and being emotional is the worst way to handle this sort of thing. Thats exactly why guys get nervous about playing with girls. If you are a girl and wanna play in a boys game, ya gotta be able to adapt and handle yourself- if you cant, maybe you shouldnt be playing with them-- go find a girls tournement. Girls are the minority in hockey so you shouldnt expect the majority to change for you.

[RichardGraham]

Hi JustaGirl,

First, thanks for beginning a new thread. The old one was getting to be a pain in the neck to follow!

You made a great post that makes a lot of sense. I've played with women in coed tournaments who gave nor asked for "a break," and that did gain my respect. Well, their ability to school me did, too. /wtimages/icons/wink.gif

In my experience, sometimes you don't even know know who you've run over or been run over by until the whistle blows. I'm sure that some guys freak out when they find out that a "girl" has stolen the puck from them or knocked them down, but that goes with the game, doesn't it?

Keep rolling, JustaGirl, and welcome to Inline Hockey Central.

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[DennyG]

the point to the below thread is not respect for a girl player by male teammates. The point is respect for a teammate.

The sexist terms were only used by the young male player because that was all his tiny mind had in his arsenal of disrespect.

and let's also get straight...this was made by a player to a teammate who was better skilled, thoroughly more knowledgeable about the tactical concepts of the game, trying and not giving up (like the male player was), totally unafraid (like the male player was), and she was playing in her correct, biological age group.

While she was being totally respectful to him, and all their other teammates, his shallow, puny personal ego was so threatened by the ability of this girl, that he chose to lash out at her to bring her down a peg, rather than work harder at his own shortcomings.

Incidentally, this ain't a boys game, it's a game, period.

Merry Christmas, darn it...

[JustaGirl]

Denny, look at your last post-- you included "like the Male player" at least three times! Is that not doing the same thing you complain about? Why cant you just leave gender out of it and just acknowledge that the kid (male or female) happens to be a bit of an idiot. Who cares?? let him be an idiot and get over it. If your little girl is so good, I am sure she will not be so effected by this sort of behavior if you dont make a big deal of it. Kids look to their parents for how to react. You getting all worked up over such a minor thing is only going to make her more nervous and distracted. And ya know, I hate to be so politically incorrect or whatever but hockey generally is a boys game (thats why your girl is being treated in such a way)-- it will remain a boys game when girls try and play and change the ways things are played by getting angry when boys treat them rough. Hockey is a rough game and kids are gonna get mad at each other regardless of their sex. I dont mean to get all preachy at you or anything-- just growing up playing hockey with the boys I have seen what works and what doesnt-- complaining does not work-- it is counter- productive. Being able to take some abuse and handle it earns respect and wether its fair or not, girls have to earn it. Anyhow, have a good Christmas.

[JustaGirl]

I think it is fairly obvious that racial slurs are different than "Bitch" in our society. Racial slurs are referring to a personal trait of a player. "Bitch" is simply an insult--guys call each other "bitch" as often as girls do. All I am saying is that the best way to beat sexism is to prove them wrong-- not whine about it. I agree that calling someone "bitch" is inapropriate-- but not because that player is a girl- its wrong regardless of sex and should be emphasized as such.

[MDE3]

Personally I thing "Just a Girl" has a mature, healthy and realistic perspective on the whole thing and I commend her for rising above it.

As parents we can get way too involved defending our kids....me included.

As was discussed at length in this post earier, the word has become as commonly used as many other equally offensive words. At the risk of sounding "politically incorrect" I think our litigious society is far too hypocritical in their overeaction to the use of language on the basis that is insulting racially or sexually in circumstances like these, while failing to address the fact that far more demeaning and foul language is accepted, used and listened to by our kids in our schools, on videos, and CD's every day. Why would it be any different away from school?

I know Danny is dedicated to making his hockey program a bastion of fair play for all who participate, or so it would seem from his posts and positions taken, so in this context I can understand his reaction to this show of unfair behaviour better than others. However inline hockey is just another sport, and like those sports, mirror's life in a microchosm. Rising above the words and insults is what we much teach, as it always has been. Always remember that the better you are at what you do, the more of a target you become.....just ignore it and keep getting better.

There will always be some level of insult or unfair play or calls or in any sport, or any other life activity. I think Danny's daughter seems like she could shrug this off and just elevate her play to send the message loud and clear.

[JustaGirl]

MED3, I agree with you-- racist and sexist language is considered the "Cardinal Sin" in our society and while it is definatly disgusting, that emphasis allows other just as harmful language to escape notice. I also agree that hypersensetivity is certainly in existance in girls hockey (when playing with the boys) I played in the Millenium tournement yesterday and a female player (who was playing very rough) got checked, so her brother (also playing) punched the guy that checked her, starting a big fight. After the game the player was complaining to the ref that it was unfair that he got punched for checking a girl and the ref responded by saying "If you checked my sister, I'd have punched you too" -- This disgusted me because that shows obvious favoritism to the female player-- guys are allowed to fight to protect her, but if you check her, you get thrown out of the game. How are guys and girls supposed to play equally when the refs dont treat us all the same? I think many guys mean well in being protective of girl players and I appreciate it-- I think its sweet-- but often times it can be counter-productive. The male player that got kicked out of the game for checking a girl would not have such a negative attitude against female players if he was not treated unfairly.

[MDE3]

Congratulations for standing up for true "equality". You sound like someone who doesn't want the evaluation of your play to be colored by a sexist perspective....she's good (for a girl), and I salute your honest approach.

For others who may not like my response, please rest assured I do not condone "talking smack" on any of the teams I have coached, and find it boring and even nauseating at the pro levels when seen on television. That goes for "smack" between my own players as well as between them and their opposition.... regardless of sex. If I had a large intimidating player with skating skills playing for me, and he/she only hit smaller weaker players(not saying that girls automatically fall into that category for those who would like to misinterpret my statement), I would probably bench that player.

First and foremost coaching sport requires that we coach values that the player can use in life. Too often these values are lost to a "winning is everything" perspective. The values of fairness and courage, and learning that there is an equation between effort and result, are the primary directives. Although this may seem trite and laughable to many who read these lines, this is the only real reward for playing sports. Glory, money, status, or just making yourself feel better because you beat someone, verbally, mentally or physically are all false goals.

Just A Girl..wants to be measured for herself as a player....and as such demonstrates a sense of both fairness and courage, as well as a desire to be measured for her efforts against an absolute standard, not an alternate one. She should be applauded for her stand!

[DennyG]

One of the purposes of this discussion board is to bring to the light problems with the status quo, both for intelligent discussion and to exchange possible solutions...

It is obvious that the original concern has been minimalized and trivialized to something not worth the effort..my mistake.

Guess I won't bother getting all worked up over anything anymore...

[RichardGraham]

Hi Danny,

Did you lose your password or something? What's up with "DennyG"? Let me know, I should be able to give you back your name. lol

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[TXGoalieMom]

Great posts MDE3 and JaG!

[lurules8]

Hey JAG,

Nice to hear you have the same attitude I do about playing in the men's leagues. Do you find that it's hard to play at the same level in a women's league as you would in a men's league because the women take exception to playing real hockey? Drives me nuts that most of the women's leagues I've found are more social events than competive hockey. (But my goal production goes up significantly against the women - so maybe that's the tradeoff ;)

[JustaGirl]

Lurules, yea i know what you are talking about but there are also womens teams that are competative and skilled- It kinda goes both ways. It does seem that women players tend to hold grudges a bit more but over all, I have gotten used to the different styles of play between men and women and I think that both styles are lotsa fun-- I really do enjoy playing with the boys though- Its a faster placed game. There are also some very good womens teams though.

[MolsonMan]

For all those who think that being called "bitch" on the ice or on the floor is such a horible thing, you need to relax a bit. The reason a lot of guys dislike playing competative sports with women is because it changes the dynamic of the game. It has nothing to do with ability, or gender. It has to do with the FACT that men and women handle things differently. More of a factor is that society has brought up men to handle conflict with women vastly different than conflict with men.

You tell me you want to play hockey with me (I'm male), I say grab your skates and a stick and lets play. I rent the ice with my girlfriend and skate around and take shots all the time. But when you start complaining about the way you are treated, I say grab your purse and go home, because hockey is a game that has an element of toughness attached to it and if you can't take it, you're in the wrong sport.

I don't want to shy away from going into the corner and working hard because you're a girl. If you steal the puck and someone calls you a "bitch," its not because you're a girl, its because you stole the puck. and the instant you start complaining about being treated differently, that's when people get annoyed.

So, to the ladies that play the game: there are plenty of people good enough to play the game. but the game goes beyond manipulating the puck with a stick, while standing on skates. The game is Physical, Mental, and psychological. So, until you figure out how to play and not get rattled by a little name calling, stay home.

And for the record, the best insult you can do on the rink is to make the namecaller look stupid. So, take the puck, put it in the net, and call whoever talked whatever you want. That's the name of the game.

[DennyG]

In the original post, nobody complained about being called names. Nobody complained about being treated differently. Nobody handled anything differently. Nobody took their purse and went home. Nobody was rattled by a little name calling.

Incidentally, the game is technical, tactical, physiological, and psychological...

The original post was in regard to respect for one's teammates, and the game itself.

The young women who was recipient of the name-calling simply took the game's tactical matters into her own hands, because her male teammate wasn't going to. This was in response to the comment, not the cause of the comment.

The incident didn't change her game any, in fact, she elevated her game to compensate for her teammate's stupidity and lack of tactical response to the coach's instructions.

To trivialize this young player's very positive reaction to this stupidity as "take your purse and go home" simply shows that you have issues that you haven't resolved quite yet. Relax and get a grip, yourself, eh?

[MolsonMan]

RM, How old are the players you are coaching? I don't think I have ever seen a bench, from high school to pro, where there wasn't significant cursing. unless you're coaching little kids, ease up...

[JustaGirl]

Yea, I agree with ya Molson-- as you can kinda see in the first post of this topic, I said pretty much the same thing. I have gotten cussed at by guys and even hit or punched and I really dont care (as long as i dont break a nail) I noticed that its the guys on my team that tend to get more worked up when i get hit. A guy got pissed at me and threw a punch and the guys on my team pretty much murdered him. I didnt care that he hit me-- its part of the game and i thoguht it was funny that he decided to throw a punch at a girl (I am not very big either) but the boys on my team are very protective-- I get more worried about their reactions then what will actually happen to me. As sweet as it is that guys are protective-- I think that it can go both ways-- I need to be tough and handle the game and the boys gotta let me take a little abuse.

[lurules8]

Amen Molson! Given a choice, I'll always play with the guys in a more physical game. I've yet to play in a women's league or tournament where most of the girls don't get a chip on their shoulder when you play a physical game. Guess I'll never play in a women's checking league ; )

[hockey_72]

Whatever. Don't let them call you a bitch. That is so wrong. Don't let them control you. If you cant handle your self around boys to even stick up for your self you better hide in a little corner.

[JustaGirl]

I debated on even responding to such a juvenile post, but, what the heck? I got a few minutes to spare--- You need to learn the difference between "handling" yourself and just being immature. When someone calls you a bitch, the worst thing you can do is sink to their level and argue with them-- it pretty much just proves their point. If you wanna prove them wrong-- show that you can handle some criticism and that you can hang with the boys without being over sensitive and emotional. The best way to "stick up for yourself" in hockey is on the score board, not by getting in a pissing match or a verbal spat. If you start to argue with someone who name calls or you start name calling yourself, you are letting them control you, because you start to act in reaction to what they said- rather then doing what you know is right. You are letting their actions dictate your own. As for saying that "I should hide in the corner if i cant handle to stick up for myself" I would rather be the type of girl that is confident enough in my abilities to let my actions on the rink speak for me- I have found that when I do that- Others stick up for me and I dont have deal with defending myself to people that are not worth my time. Anyhow, I look forward to a response- preferably one that is a little better thought out though.

[TXGoalieMom]

Awesome post! Where do you play JAG?

[calselect89s]

great reply..my daughter gets called alot of names and just keeps skating..hey Tx goalie mom how has your year been going? Has your baby being doing ice hockey yet? I'm so broke I cant even pay attention. Our girls just got back from Fairbanks, Alaska and now we have the ice nationals in New York. I have to win the lotto if we're going to go to any roller nationals this year. Take care
Marty Keane

[TXGoalieMom]

Boy can I relate! At a tournament recently the score was several goals to 0 when they scored on her late in the third period. The guy got in her face with a lot of colorful comments and Megan just smiled and said "The scoreboard makes me happy!". Yes, Megan is "on ice" now. She is going to try out for a chance to represent TX at the Rocky Mountain District Camp later this year in Utah. I hope that the lotto comes through for you so maybe we will see you later this year. Take care!

Kathy

[MDE3]

Hey you have all got your finger on one of the major "what's wrong with this picture" aspects of inline hockey.

Without well developed in-house, and interclub league play organized for the sport, it is rapidly pricing itself out of existance for many players and parents by putting so much focus on the various tournament series which require extensive and expensive travel.

While interclub league play is not feasible everywhere due to lack of facilities, it is certainly possible in the more developed regions like California, NE USA, Atlanta, Florida, parts of Texas etc.

By converting the majority of play to in - house and interclub rather than just tournament play, travel costs could be minimized, and more players brought into the sport.

Harking back to the not to distant past when roller hockey meant playing "ball hockey" at the local disco roller rink, the sport was growing in leaps and bounds, NHL Breakout was intended to grow fans and players at the "street level". However as dedicated sport court et al evolved and the sport became more defined by elite play at the national tournament levels, the grass root players were left behind and scorned by the "elite".

What has happened is that the sport has priced itself out of it's roots, with the exotic prices of equipment...skates, sticks, as well as the cost of "floor time". From the rinks to the tournament operators to the manufacturers no one is making money nor are they looking at the sport as a true "growth industry" anymore.

A true NGB needs to be established and quickly to formulate a national game plan for all levels of the sport, and re-establish a well organized and AFFORDABLE entry level of play, as well as offering mid and high end competiton on a more local basis. Without everyone working together and from the same page..the sport will continue to lose support..for financial reasons if nothing else.

Do not take this as gloom and doom for the sport, but the complaint you make here is repeated almost everywhere I go, and at all levels. The sport has an inherent attraction for many, but that attraction was based often on the fact that playing it was inexpensive and wholesome fun for the kids. Now with the cost and time commitment of playing the sport rivaling that of ice hockey...many parents simply say well I might as well just do ice if I cannot afford both.

[TXGoalieMom]

Wow! Another awesome post.......and all too true unfortunately.

[cannibalkid]

Is Meagan going to be at NARCh in Tyler, Texas March 26th-28th? If so for what team?

[RichardGraham]

Hi MDE3,

Wish I'd said that... /wtimages/icons/wink.gif

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[TXGoalieMom]

Not sure what our plans are right now. I am j/w why you ask. Do you know Megan?

[cannibalkid]

I dont know her personally. I have seen her play a few times when I came down to Texas and played. This year we will bring a 16-under team and I told our goalie that there was a girl goalie from Texas that would show him up. Of course it being a bunch a 14,15,16 year old kids the first thing out of thier mouths was 'Is she hot?' HAHA just was wondering if she would be there.

[TXGoalieMom]

The priorities of a teenage boy.........

[cannibalkid]

HAHA and you know that doesnt change much as they get older. The first time I saw her was at a TopCat tourny in Arlington. I was watching her play and this was before we knew she was a girl. Me and my friend were saying 'Wow, that goalie is pretty good' Then she took her helmet off to get a drink. My friend and I just kinda stared at each other. We were in love. HAHAHA

[JustaGirl]

Hey Tx goalie mom, Thanks. Glad ya didnt think i was too argumentative. I play with Tour Riot based out of Southern California. (As well as several inhouse teams)

[RichardGraham]

Hi JustaGirl,

I didn't think you were too argumentative. I thought you were right on. Keep it up; it's great to have people like you in our sport.

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[defencegirl22]

that's true that you have to adapt to that, but it isn't until they respect you that they will stop calling you names. you have to go out there and show them that you are better than him. or make them afraid of you! there was one guy that wouldn't stop using bad language to me. i just pounded him into the boards when he wasn't looking, and that really shut him up!!

[defencegirl22]

guys just get angry at us because we are better than them. /wtimages/icons/laugh.gif

[JustaGirl]

Yea, I guess that just depends on your style. I am not that physical of a player. I play foward so I just tend to score if I wanna send a message or whatever. I play with men mostly and they are much bigger than me so my job is not to be the enforcer type. The big guys on my team throw hits for me when necessary and that works for me. It just depends on your age and size. When I was younger, I was bigger then most of the boys so I played more physical- when ya get a little older, the boys get really big and ya gotta adjust your style as such. I just dont try to play a style that I cannot succeed in. Guys are bigger and stronger so I find other ways of getting the job done. I learn how be in the right place at the right time and I know how to use my small size to my advantage. I guess its whatever works for the individual. I think I kind of have a personal thing against fighting.I like to be seen as feminine and so I try to "play like a lady"- I let the boys fight for me and I just play a finese stlye and put points on the board. Like I said though, its a style that different people play. I know girls that like to hit and play rough and I know guys that are like me that just play as a small foward. There are different roles for different players on a team and you have to figure out what make you an asset to a team and what role needs to be filled. As far as name calling goes- to me it is just not that big a deal to waste time getting angry about. I know that I am not a dirty player so if a guy gets pissed at me, its probably his issue- not mine. However, if i make a mistake and accidently put a dirty hit one someone- i will own up to it. Sorry fo the long post- I'm having a hard time figuring out what i am trying to say :)

[MDE3]

Actually your post applies as much to men players as it does to women players..(or at least most of it...not sure if the "acting feminine" part would be too appreciated as applying to male players)but the rest is analogous to many smaller male players..and it's how they learn to be effective. A little nmore difficult to be successfull like that in MLRH, but some do it pretty well even there.

[JustaGirl]

exactly- I agree with your post 100%- I consider my job on the team to be similar to that of a small male player- I think that there are important roles on a team for differnet players and if players use their different features to their advantage- it makes for a good well-rounded team.

[rt12]

Small male player? What's that supposed to mean. Look at Martin St. Louis. He is around 5' 6".

[JustaGirl]

Yea, so? 5'6" is small. What wrong with that? In fact, by you even including him in the conversation, you are acknowledging that he is "small". Small is not a bad thing- its just a description.

[defencegirl22]

Look at Martin St. Louis!! 5'7" and probably the best in the NHL.

Laura Lischwe
#22 Defenseman
Carolina Sportsplex Tsunami

[DannyG]

please remember the name Jimmy Rodriguez...made the all-national-USAHIL tourney team (ceremonial award) last year as a 19 year old at the adult nationals, third division...has been alternate on West team at USAHIL youth national sports fest tourney two years...has really worked on his game hard, was absolutely dominant last year, both ends of the floor at nationals...took our team to 3rd place...hopes to have a real shot at making the USAHIL National Team for the IIHF World's tourney this year...Jimmy is 5' 2"...remember the name.

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by DannyG on 04/15/04 07:04 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[Kdawg68]

Speaking on Male ism my womens team is playing in a tourney this weekend in a mens division.This is gonna be interesting.ALL FEMALE VS ALL MALE.

[defencegirl22]

The women will win. =)

Laura Lischwe
#22 Defenseman
Carolina Sportsplex Tsunami

[Kdawg68]

OK this is how it went.After competing in a mens division our womens team finished 1w 2l 1t,I personally believe we could have actually played in the finals and won,however we were a bunch of girls who never played with each other and didnt click till mid way through our third game,when we did
I know we could have beat them all. Our losses were 2-1 and 4-3.Anyway thats how we finished.

[showtime89]

I have had girls (women) on my team the last two summers. 2 years ago, the girl played well and ended up with 1 point in 8 games but played her position (D) well.
Last season the girl had 2 goals 3 assists in 4 games. She was a threat to score if she had the puck. Neither were pushovers. Only difference was that they changed in a different lockerroom. And if they hit someone they got away with it because they were smaller. But everyone stood up for them if they got hit. Bottom line, if you can play, I don't care if you are male, female or a hermaphrodite (well I might care about that) but really if you can play, I don't care male or female.

Ron Sardina
SUNY Brockport Roller Hockey Club
President and Captain 1995-1999
#89

[RichardGraham]

Hi Ron,

Hermaphrodites need love too. At least, that's what Jon Huck says. /wtimages/icons/wink.gif

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[showtime89]

Yeah, I know John, he has some issues that need to be sorted out.

Ron Sardina
SUNY Brockport Roller Hockey Club
President and Captain 1995-1999
#89

[hockey_72]

I didnt think that you were arguementative. I didnt mean to argue with the boys but to gain respect from them so they wont call you a bitch. I think that some criticism is OK and that sometimes you do need to just stick it out and "show you can hang with the guys". You were right in the fact that handling yourself and maturity is different. Like I said I didnt mean to "sink to their level and argue with them". I simply meant to gain respect so that they dont call you one. I am still sticking to what I said about how it is wrong for them to call you a bitch because I do believe it is. However that is MY opinion. You are also right about how you should just let your actions on the rink speak for you. I would also like to speak for the girls that are not confident enough to let their actions speak for them, which I would like to say I can be one of those at times, in order for boys not to call you different names you need to gain respect by joking with them but dont let them call you a bitch. I would like to apoligize for misunderstandings and also for the fact that my maturaty level was not there when I made my first response. My appoligies.

[hockey_72]

THANKYOU!!!!

[JustaGirl]

In response to Hockey_72's most recent post.- Thanks for the clarification and the more thought out post. I think we are probably on the same page. Bitch!! :) jus' kiddin!

[gchecker]

It would be nice if girls could be able to have their own league as well. Sexual attraction is the prime factor in problems here, even if it sounds like a kindergarten idea.
Never had a girl on a team of mine , but im afraid if she was a knockout, i would never have an eye on the puck! By the way, i wish there were more roller hockey leagues in general( for my fellow males and the ladies as well)! we desperately need them

[RichardGraham]

Hi Folks,

Let's start a new thread... this one's getting to be a pain to follow.

Thanks!

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central