NCT 2004

[JMUDukes26]

Nationals is 8 months away. We have a Nation of team divided under the rules of 2 National Governing Bodies. I can't imagine the two will produce rulebooks that vary THAT much where we can't make a few accomidations to have an NCT. How could we make it work. This is what everybody wants. This is the big concern. At least at this juncture, everyone joining NCRHA or CRHL doesn't really seem like a viable option. Does anyone care to work together on this one? I mean, we're all doing this in the interest of developing the sport, so shouldn't this be a task that we can work together on?

What are your thoughts, what are your ideas?

Gary the Monkey

[bsurh35]

I agree with you completely, and I more than willing to do almost anything to make that happen. I know both NCRHA and CRHL are going to allow teams from either organization compete in their nationals. That seems incredibly redundant to me.

Problems:
Rules shouldn't differ too much, but if they do, who's do we implement?
I know NCRHA is looking into a 3 period format. Once again, who's format do we use?
Teams are unevenly distributed in both quantities and talent between the two organizations. How do we decide who gets in?
Where is the event to be located? (Should be SW since that is where it was scheduled to be, but there currently isn't a good two rink facility there)
What proportion of refs will we have between the organizations?
How will the divisons break down?
Under who's name will the tournament be marketed?

I'd love to hear anyone's suggestions to these problems. I'd also like people to see people add some problems that I have not seen.

[JMUDukes26]

I dunno who's rules would be implemented, perhaps a combination of the two that seems to make the most sense (since neither org will have a perfect rulebook... USAHIL doesn't even have one)

As for the difference in talent and quantity, this was always a problem, since CRHL had regions that varied so widely. This is ironed out at the seeding meeting, provided fair and honest people are sent from their regions...

Event location will be tricky, as there are alot of factors. I think cost effectivness is important, for that reason, I would steer clear of places (like the NorthEast...even though I'm from there) as our rink expenses tend to be high. But the cost of shipping referees all over the country need to be considered, as well as the cost of moving teams all over. Somewhere warm might be nice.... :-)

Referees are referees... I say take the most qualified refs. Most good refs (oxymoron?) officiate for more than one league, so slight rule changes won't make them much worse than they already are.

Divisions? Hmm...

Who's name? Well... depends on who is heading things up. If one organization is going to put it all together, than they probably deserve the credit for it. Perhaps both names could get billing?

I would like to see some comparisons on how rink time prices break down across the country... I betcha it'd be interesting.

Just my thoughts... ta ta for now.

Gary LaBelle
President
JMU Roller Hockey
ECRHA PR Director
ECRHA DI ACC Rep<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MikeBurke on 08/15/03 05:45 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

[columbus_RHstar]

&lt;&lt;Rules shouldn't differ too much, but if they do, who's do we implement?&gt;&gt;

I think use a third non-affiliated rule book, ie USAHIL, ASSU/USARS, etc.. that way no one has an advantage.

&lt;&lt;I know NCRHA is looking into a 3 period format. Once again, who's format do we use?&gt;&gt;

Use the 3 period system, it's something unique to hockey and all hockey should use the 3 period format.

&lt;&lt;Teams are unevenly distributed in both quantities and talent between the two organizations. How do we decide who gets in?&gt;&gt;

Set up a proportion (I can't believe I'm using math before school..) with # of NCRHA teams NCRHA over # of CRHL teams then figure out soemthing that would give you an equal number for each..with maybe 10-15 teams total. I'm not sure of the exact figures, but I think you can get the idea.

&lt;&lt;Where is the event to be located? (Should be SW since that is where it was scheduled to be, but there currently isn't a good two rink facility there)&gt;&gt;

Somewhere Central, maybe The Cooler down in Georgia?

&lt;&lt;What proportion of refs will we have between the organizations?&gt;&gt;

Again, use the same formula as you would for how many teams, only use officials instead of teams.

&lt;&lt;How will the divisons break down?&gt;&gt;

That is probably the hardest to figure out but if you only had 10-15 teams you could use one large division, or 2 divisions.

&lt;&lt;Under who's name will the tournament be marketed?&gt;&gt;

Whoever puts the whole thing together.


You could always have 2 seperate tournaments (1 CRHL, 1 NCRHA) and let the winners play for the undisputed champion.

[MDE3]

Sounds much too simple and logical for this to work lol... particularily when it leaves so little room for debate and analyses......

[JMUDukes26]

Maybe this isn't the disaster it's been made out to be after all. I'm sure the NCRHA and CRHL would be willing to set aside their differences to keep the sport moving forward. Right?


[this is where important people from CRHL/NCRHA post something reassuring that validates my assumption and makes all of the college roller hockey world feel warm and fuzzy]

[No. I am not gay.]

Gary LaBelle
President
JMU Roller Hockey
ECRHA PR Director
ECRHA DI ACC Rep

[JMUDukes26]

Glad to see there is so much interest in this... its reassuring. really. it is.

Gary LaBelle
President
JMU Roller Hockey
ECRHA PR Director
ECRHA DI ACC Rep

[cakeuneke]

I may not be one of the important people you're talking about, but there are plenty of people on both sides who have the best interest of the players in mind, and will be able to set differences aside to make an NCT work. That would partially defeat the purpose of a split in the first place though. If it was all going to come together with an NCT with different leagues agreeing on one set of rules for one tournament, that's really how it was last year. I would personally be willing however, and I think Derek would be especially interested in being involved in conversations about having a national tournament together. Whether everyone on both sides would be willing or not, I do not know.

And I don't think it's that people don't care, but I think both leagues are coming up with some ideas right now that they probably don't want to talk about until the ideas are more concrete. At least that would be my best guess.

[JMUDukes26]

Or... they hate each other so much the idea of working things out seems distant at the moment. In the end, it will have to happen, otherwise NCT will be a sham, but it will suck most for the teams who are in the smaller league... because the nationals with 7 teams will hardly be a nationals at all.

I'm sure a reasonable solution will be found in the end. It seems to me the main differences in the organization are the organizational structure, the short term goals, and the means for reaching the end result. I'm sure both sides agree that growth of the sport is the ultimate goal, and frankly, no one wants to be in the organization that resists a united NCT (thought I doubt such an org. exists)...

Gary LaBelle
President
JMU Roller Hockey
ECRHA PR Director
ECRHA DI ACC Rep

[bsurh35]

I didn't find any sarcasm in that last post at all, but I agree. For all of those people who were yelling at both organizations in the NCRHA post, where are you now? Isn't this what you want? If something like this is going to happen, it has to happen now. Both sides are beginning to plan their own NCT, and their own entry requirements. The sooner we wait, the more definite possibility of having two NCTs.

[umroller]

The National Championship Tournament should be seen as the final product of a process. It doesn't seem fair that organizations and teams that decide not to be part of the process should have the opportunity to participate in the final product. A national governing body should do more than just organize an NCT. On the other hand, it would not be a true national championship without everyone involved. However, it may just not be possible for this coming season with the many differences that are apparent among the two organizations. We will just have to wait and see what can be worked out.



http://members.aol.com/umroller/images/benecrha.jpg

[JMUDukes26]

Something to keep in mind is that as of now, not every team individually decided which league to play in. Under the CRHL structure, any team located in a geographic area within the boundries of a CRHL Member Organization (MO) HAD to play in that MO. In example, Virginia Tech is the southernmost school in the ECRHA. The ECRHA's boundry extends to the southern border of Virginia. As such, VT was required to play in the ECRHA, even though they could have traveled to ACRHA tournaments in less time.

When the league split into CRHL and NCRHA, the MOs decided which Governing Body they wanted to be a part of. Most regions got a feel for the consensus of the league's teams, and made the decision based on that. There may have been teams who were loyal to a different Governing Body than their MO is playing in. To deprive these teams a National Championship is unfair. They didn't really have a choice.

I suppose the 2 organizations could use the same process they did with the teams of RMCRHA before there was an MO there. In the past, these schools received at-large bids to NCT, allowing them to play, even though there was no MO in their region.

That probably sounded like alot of gibberish, but if you read it, there is an idea of how it could work. I think if you are an at-large team, you still have to pay team dues to the Governing Body who's nationals you intend to qualify for. I also have no idea who you would play against in the regular season, or how you would handle the logistics of that.

Gary LaBelle
President
JMU Roller Hockey
ECRHA PR Director
ECRHA DI ACC Rep

[cakeuneke]

First of all, letting teams from outside regions come under the CRHL as independents is exactly what's being kicked around in CRHL discussions, it's just a matter of how many games an independent would have to play. Secondly, every team that spoke up in the MCRHL (9 of 10 active members) said they wanted to stay in the CRHL. And finally, NOBODY is required to play in the MCRHL, where does that come from?? And nobody is required to play in the NCRHA or ECRHA. In fact, ECRHA teams, under the CRHL structure could play in the CRHL if they wanted to. It's under the NCRHA structure that teams couldn't play from an outside region because first they would have to form a legally recognized organization.

[MBurke]

Wow, lots of falsehoods going around here, unintentional I hope.

Gary was referring to the CRHL rule that mandated that you play with the region that you fall within (doesn't exist anymore after 2001-2002 seeason). This was to prevent, say ECRHA from trying to "outbid" a neighboring region to take teams from them.

CRHL and NCRHA will have the same allowance for at large teams. If you don't play in a current region/conference, you must fulfill some type of minimum requirement in order to qualify for a bid at nationals. No legal structure is required unless you want to form a full-time member region.


Mike Burke
Commissioner
Eastern Collegiate Roller Hockey Association
http://www.ecrha.net

[cakeuneke]

"No legal structure is required unless you want to form a full-time member region."

That's what I was referring too. I was trying to make the same point you just did, that there is no requirement to play in any specific region or league. My other point is that a very small number of teams can form a region easily in the CRHL structure, and legal status is required to form a region in the NCRHA. Sorry if I misrepresented what I was saying.

[JMUDukes26]

My apologies, I was unaware that the rule had been omitted. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens. At this point, unless I see something that really angers me, I'm gonna try and stay out of the conversations. It doesn't seem like we are getting anywhere on the message boards, just trying to be unbiased, while clearly revealing our biases.

Gary LaBelle
President
JMU Roller Hockey
ECRHA PR Director
ECRHA DI ACC Rep