Five Member Organizations Unite to Form NCRHA

[RichardGraham]

Hi Folks,

I hope to be able to once again update the IHC Home Page, but until technical difficulties are solved, I will post breaking news on the appropriate Message Boards.

***

August 7, 2003 ? Five former member organizations of the Collegiate Roller Hockey League (CRHL) have united and are proud to announce the creation of the National Collegiate Roller Hockey Association (NCRHA).

The participating member organizations of the NCRHA are the Atlantic Collegiate Roller Hockey Association (ACRHA), Eastern Collegiate Roller Hockey Association (ECRHA), Southwest Collegiate Hockey League (SCHL), Southeast Collegiate Roller Hockey Association (SCRHA) and Western Collegiate Roller Hockey League (WCRHL).

The CRHL has been an association of regional college roller hockey leagues with the chief purpose of organizing and administering a national championship tournament for the sport of college roller hockey. Financial and organizational decisions during the past few years have caused the short and long-term vision of the CRHL to significantly diverge from that of the organizations participating in the newly-formed NCRHA.

After months of discussion and negotiations with league representatives, the participating regional leagues have decided to part ways with CRHL, believing that a national governing body can and should provide more than a national championship tournament and that a not-for-profit corporate board structure with equality amongst all its members will garnish support and rebuild trust and communication.

Initial goals of the NCRHA include the standardization of rules, policies and documentation. NCRHA has already completed a successful campaign to unify web site content among its five member organizations, allowing players and fans to easily access league information and statistics.

NCRHA will maintain College Nationals in April as well as the National Conference for Collegiate Inline Hockey (NCCIH). The NCCIH will be conducted at the Regional Showdown which is a Regional All Star Event being held in the summer of 2004.

The NCRHA welcomes inquiries from independent or at-large teams, industry representatives, sponsors, media representatives, colleges and universities, and future players. More information can be found on the NCRHA web site at www.ncrha.org. The information is being frequently updated, so check back often.

Contact: Mike Burke
(516) 322-7111
[email protected]
www.ncrha.org

***

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[cakeuneke]

Just to make it clear, there is still a CRHL, and there are still plenty of teams in it. The CRHL will be releasing information within a few days on the situation and the upcoming season.

[nayrbs]

So...pretty much the CRHL has lost all its teams except those in the midwest and great plains. Is there going to be any nationals or anything? Why did the other regions choose not to join this new organization? We do not need a bunch of governing bodies, one will do! I cannot believe that the NCRHA would leave those regions out, it seems to me that neither of these organizations (CRHL, NCRHA) care about the most important part of the game. THE PLAYERS!

nayrbs

[cakeuneke]

nayrbs, which team are you from?? What region do you play in? Great Plains?

Anyway, CRHL has lost all REGIONS except Great Plains, Midwest, and Rocky Mountains (a new region). Individual teams do have the ability to chose leagues, and at least in the CRHL if there are 3 or 4 teams in a geographic area they can create a conference very easily.

Speaking as the Midwest director, the Midwest teams did not feel there was any advantage to leaving the CRHL. Speaking as an individual with an opinion, either did I. The NCRHA has cited "irreconcilable differences" as the reason for leaving, and I really don't know what differences were irreconcilable because from my perspective we could have come together.

When it came down to it, it didn't make sense for the MCRHL or its teams to join a new league and have to start from scratch when the CRHL is already set up and moving to a new structure which gives all decision making ability to the teams.

I completely agree that we do not need a bunch of governing bodies. In fact, everyone does, even the NCRHA, and it's unfortunate, but they did have their reasons for leaving, and I don't want to speak for anyone as to what those reasons were. But let me say for certain that the NCRHA did not leave the other regions out, the other regions chose not to be a part of the NCRHA. After the CRHL releases officially their new structure and plans for the upcoming season, I hope that you will reconsider your statement about not caring for the players. Regions that are in both the CRHL and NCRHA (at least many of them) went directly to their teams and asked the teams what they wanted. If you were not one of those teams contacted, you should talk to your Regional Director.

All that being said. There will be nationals. Unfortunately, there may be two. I believe both organizations though are willing to let teams from the other organization qualify for their own national tournament. I know at least that the CRHL is, I don't know for sure that the NCRHA is, but I think they will be. Please ask questions to anyone in either league or here about what you don't understand.

Thanks.

[cakeuneke]

Now that I realize you're from the MCRHL, you need to talk to your team captain. The only teams that haven't replied to us in a while about this whole issue are Ohio State and Rose Hulman. If you're not on one of those teams, then I was directly in contact with a representative of your team, and they were fully aware of the situation and the choices facing us.

[bsurh35]

To reitterate Chad's point: Nayrbs, I do know from previous posts of yours that you play in the MCRHL. As the Assistant League Director for the MCRHL, I am backing Chad 100% that we had a conference with 8 of our 11 active members, and all 8 of them voted to stay with the CRHL. We've been trying to get ahold of all of our member teams, but either we don't have a contact for the remaining 3, or they decided to not participate in the conference. Please let us know which school you are from so we can be assured we are connected with your team.

The NCRHA did not leave us out. We are still very connected to the NCRHA in personal relationships that we built over the summer. From your reactions, it appears you haven't been to www.mcrhl.com, and you have been out of the loop. Please check out the website, and go to that message board as well. There is another discussion going on there about this topic.

[Rebecca]

<font color=blue>Nayrbs

(speaking not on behalf of NCRHA, but as a person involved with this)....

NCRHA is a new name, but it is still the CRHL. The main core of the teams of CRHL are now NCRHA. No one has gone anywhere. Spliting and creating a new name was not something we took lightly one bit. It was not something we ever wanted it to come to, but after close to 2 years of our member teams not being able to find value for membership in CRHL beyond what is achieved within one's own Member Organization, it was the ultimate and final decision. Teams stand behind it like lead rocks. NCRHA sited &quot;irreconcilable differences&quot; simply to be polite, as most do when using that statement. Had the situation been easily remedied, there would not have been a split. It was a long time coming though for a few regions. To expose all the drama about it would only harm both organizations.

Taking it back 2 months: A letter was drafted to CRHL Admin and UNANIMOUSLY discussed and agreed upon by all 8 of the Member Organization heads, including MCRHL's. This letter stated what changes needed to occur in order for the CRHL to prosper. It also stated what the 8 Member Organizations would do in terms of working together, communicating, and trusting one another to work together creating national standards and guidelines as well as specific membership benefits. It also demanded certain changes be agreed upon by the CRHL heads. This included a cessation to the CRHL Premier Program and a re-evaluation of how and why it had to exist; a demand that CRHL heads do the foot work to communicate with the regions, and demand that CRHL show the benefits of being a member beyond that of a National Championship Tournament (which is paid for by teams 100% anyway). This action was quickly counter proposed by CRHL admin with a new structure rather then a compromise. It had some great ideas, but it lacked quite a lot. ALl these docs were made available to ALL teams (team reps specifically) of CRHL at the time. It is just a matter of whether teams wanted to partake in voicing options, helping, or standing ground on things. The info and all these docs is still available through your League Director. In most cases it appears on the internet through your region.

The counter proposal by CRHL was rejected by the 5 regions, but 3 thought they could implement it. While it was disapointing that it came down to that after all 8 had originally proposed a unanimous document, the 5 regions saw the reasoning in why the 3 regions accepted it.

I can only urge you to speak directly to your league directors, or even to the team's of other regions or to the league director's of other regions. Look around you and evaluate what you want out of a college program and how serious you are about the dream of a future as a true college sport.

This split did not occur over night and it was not done without the knowledge and input/suggestions/opinions of the member clubs. It only leads curious minds to know why the 5 large regions of CRHL felt the need to create a new name.

Continuing to post about it on public message boards will inevitably lead to outpouring and butting-of-heads that neither myself, Chad, Derek, Burke, or anyone want to engage in.

If anyone would like to discuss further, you may call any of the 5 NCRHA Board of Directors and are encouraged to visit all our sites and see improvement already or you may even call me directly. My contact info/number appears on the ECRHA website and on the NCRHA website.

Thank you Chad and Derek for everything. These friendships will remain and we will still continue to bring the members excellent programming, benefits, and leagues, just in different ways.

Thanks for reading.</font color=blue>

Rebecca Breitel,
President Eastern Collegiate Roller Hockey Association
<A HREF="http://www.ecrha.net" target="_new">http://www.ecrha.net</A>
<A HREF="http://www.ncrha.net" target="_new">http://www.ncrha.org</A>

Rebecca

http://community.webshots.com/sym/image5/8/3/85/67580385LGfyvC_ph.jpg

[nayrbs]

Everyone who has posted, Thank You for the info about the changes in college roller hockey.

I am from the MCRHL, the biggest concern I have is this...When you are at this level of organized roller hockey you want something to look forward too.

The best way for me to explain what I mean is to relate this to travel roller hockey and tournaments like NARCH. A team forms to play in a region (comparable to our regions at the college level) the best teams go to nationals where all the best teams across the country play each other until the champs are crowned. From my view this is the best part of roller hockey! Being able to see other teams skills and how you match up against them is something any competitor treasures. (I know this is a little long but try to follow this.)

What are the teams in the CRHL or the NCRHA supposed to look forward too? I went to P.A. this past year, I loved it because I got to see at least one team from all over the country. We played teams from east coast, west coast, and the great plains. It gets boring playing the same teams over and over, and if those are the only teams that are going to go to nationals what is the point?

I know a lot of people are trying to make college roller hockey better, which is great, and I thank you for that. But everyone seems to have a biased opinion because they are involved. It is hard to see the big picture when you are part of the problem.

I would love to hear what others have to say about about the topic from an outside view.

(I am not trying to offend anyone, I am just trying to understand what is really going to happen in the future)

Thanks,
nayrbs

[hockeyplayer69]

As an outsider, I think that this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. At a time when the sport almost has a level (collegiate) where everyone is united, first the "premier league" joke comes up, and now this. It appears that there is a power struggle going on, a clashing of egos. Get over it people; no one wants to see two "champions" duking it out over IHC message boards on who's really the best team. I hope this doesn't go along the path of the "pro" level...

[cakeuneke]

Post deleted by cakeuneke

[MBurke]

If your true opinion of &quot;united&quot; is having nearly 80% of an organization dissatisfied with its leadership and paying dues for what they believe are little to no results other than the national championship tournament, then I guess you're right, but I personally think it's about far more than any kind of power or ego struggle.

As an outsider, it's tough to get a perspective on all that goes on behind the scenes in college roller hockey because we generally don't drag out all of our problems on public message boards, as is the case with many of the pro leagues.

This decision was not a rash one that was arrived at over a couple weeks. The major disagreement came over whether CRHL could actually fix the problems that EVERY region agreed it had. Some believed it could, some did not.

It might make some sense to look at the history of most sports in their fledgling developmental years. Any idea how many professional baseball leages existed around the turn of the century? (1900,that is, not 2000!) In fact, just about every pro sport that I can think of took from 15-20 years to shake out into one successful organization.

Mike Burke
Commissioner
Eastern Collegiate Roller Hockey Association
http://www.ecrha.net<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MikeBurke on 08/11/03 10:38 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

[GoRangrHky]

Once the lobour strike sets in in the NHL, there will be a new professional ice hockey league, the WHA. So if an extremely establishd professional league, with national television boradcasts, 20,000 seat venues, and multi million dollar contracts can't get their $#!+ together, then it does not suprise me that a college club program couldn't. But it eventually will, as college rolelr hockey on a big time level is still only 5 years young. But more progress has been made in a month than there has been in years. Look at www.ncrha.org . Then look at www.crhl.net . This is where a majority of team's $185 went last year. And we haven't even cut a check to NCRHA, and it's done.....

http://www.pride.hofstra.edu/~afrey1/ecrhasig.gif

[nayrbs]

I see a lot of the opinions on here are from the ECRHA, who seems to be the ones trying to take over the CRHL and all the teams that it has put together. I played in the MCRHL, which was run terribly, we did not get anything. We did not have all-stars and I do not even know if the regional champions got a a trophy. But it did not matter that much because I knew that if my team was good enough then we would go to nationals, where everything is bigger and better. Why does the ECRHA and NCRHA think that things are so bad? What was so wrong with things? If possible post a few problems that needed to be fixed that were a necessity to the future of college roller hockey.

[Rebecca]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I see a lot of the opinions on here are from the ECRHA, who seems to be the ones trying to take over the CRHL and all the teams that it has put together.

<hr></blockquote>

<font color=blue>WOW, that was an interesting statement. It also shows that you are possibly threatened by some phantom 'invasion'. The people who post here are very involved with ECRHA because they are leaders. They have built their clubs and now help build the ECRHA and will continue to help build the NCRHA. They excel in most areas. The ECRHA is also the largest group so therfor has more people involved and more vocalism. So you are to find fault with those who want to build College hockey simply because they come from ECRHA-area?? ECRHA is not trying to take over anything....and you can even ask your own regional directors about the help we have given to to other regions from simple verbal support and interaction to actual tangible documents and assitence with business procedures. To say that ECRHA is trying to take over is ludicrous. Care to explain? CRHL had nothing left to offer us that our members were not already paying for within us and also receiving and that was never debated by any CRHL director.

As far as the second part about &quot;taking over all the teams that CRHL put together&quot;, that's crazy too since I don't know of any teams that CRHL built. I am sure that RMCRHA can vouch for that even though they remain in CRHL. I only know of teams that were built by players and helped along by dedicated League Directors. CRHL was only an association.</font color=blue>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Why does the ECRHA and NCRHA think that things are so bad? What was so wrong with things?

<hr></blockquote>


<font color=blue>Why ask this only of ECRHA. All regions had problems and felt things were wrong, ALL OF THEM. Where have you been for the past few years. Did you not think there were any problems?

Rebecca

http://community.webshots.com/sym/image5/8/3/85/67580385LGfyvC_ph.jpg

[hockeyplayer69]

&quot;If your true opinion of &quot;united&quot; is having nearly 80% of an organization dissatisfied with its leadership...&quot;

If you read my statement again, you'd see that I was referring to the period before the &quot;premier league&quot; joke came about. If I recall, most of the leagues seemed to get along quite well before that period.

&quot;As an outsider, it's tough to get a perspective on all that goes on behind the scenes in college roller hockey because we generally don't drag out all of our problems on public message boards...&quot;

I agree with this; I think &quot;Rebecca&quot; (who I'm guessing is the head honcho here) and the rest of NCRHA management should not have posted problems going on in the league on a public message board. It only invites criticism and informs the whole roller hockey community of problems the CRHL and NCRHA are having. While explaination is certainly warranted, certain things said were not.

&quot;The major disagreement came over whether CRHL could actually fix the problems that EVERY region agreed it had.&quot;

This is where I think the power/ego struggle comes into play.

[MBurke]

I promised myself I'd not post in this thread again. This is the last one, I promise.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I see a lot of the opinions on here are from the ECRHA, who seems to be the ones trying to take over the CRHL and all the teams that it has put together.

<hr></blockquote>

It's kind of a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't thing here, huh? If I don't post, we're accused of not communicating with anyone, and if I do, we're doing things all by ourselves? Go to www.ncrha.org, go to the member organizations list, and contact the respective league directors. They are more than able to formulate their own opinions and absolutely are not pressured or even INFLUENCED by our decisions in the ECRHA. This was a five-region decision, not one who tried to drag everyone else along.

Understand that most of these directors have 9-5 jobs and families. I might also add that they're smart enough to stay off of here, as we're really in a no-win situation. Ask the RMCRHA and MCRHL who helped them get their regions going this year. If you think we're about taking over, I don't know what to tell you.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I played in the MCRHL, which was run terribly, we did not get anything. We did not have all-stars and I do not even know if the regional champions got a a trophy. But it did not matter that much because I knew that if my team was good enough then we would go to nationals, where everything is bigger and better. Why does the ECRHA and NCRHA think that things are so bad? What was so wrong with things? If possible post a few problems that needed to be fixed that were a necessity to the future of college roller hockey.

<hr></blockquote>

The problem you had in MCRHL was one of the largest. Half your teams and leadership leave for national leagues and positions, leaving MCRHL itself in a precarious position. You're fortunate you had someone to at least keep the league running, as disorganized as it might have been.

Wouldn't you like the MCRHL to run as organized as NCT seems to run? Is it all JUST about a national championship tournament? Granted, it's a big part of the national picture, but your 6-month season should run well, not just the last four days of the year.

I think you'll be very pleased with the things Chad and Derek will do for your region this year. They're good leaders and will definitely benefit your league greatly.

The problems you're asking for were described further up in the thread, and I don't want to constantly rehash them and open them up to argument - if you'd like to talk about them, you can contact me at [email protected] or contact Chad or Derek from your region by visiting www.mcrhl.com.


Mike Burke
Commissioner
Eastern Collegiate Roller Hockey Association
http://www.ecrha.net

[JMUDukes26]

Okay Okay... I need to address some concerns that are bugging me here. First of all, this is a very partisan debate. Nobody here is in the wrong, there are just differing views on the direction College Roller Hockey should take. The opinion that I developed of CRHL's vision, was that CRHL wanted to take the best teams, make a high quality premier league that could show the world how great the sport is, then try and bring the other clubs to that level. Again... thats my opinion based on what I saw as a CRHL member.

Now, I will be clear, and state that I am President of JMU Roller Hockey, I also hold 2 board positions in the dreaded (Sarcasm folks) ECRHA. As a board member in ECRHA, I am privy to information that other clubs are not. I know why things go really well, and I know why things go really bad.

CRHL had a great Competitive NCT Last year, no one can take that away from them. However, CRHL cannot get the sole credit for this, though a CRHL Officer was the one who was paid for organizing the tournament. I spent a week of long nights up til 4 A.M. preparing information for the program and for the seeding meeting. What did I get for those hours of toil? I got to enjoy an NCT, and felt some satisfaction when I saw how great Feasterville looked last year.

CRHL had alot of problems last year too. Problems that alot of teams didn't know about because Regional League Directors and CRHL Officers didn't want to compromise the image of College Roller Hockey. Its unfortunate that this was all aired on a messageboard, but how can teams make an educated decision as to where they want to play, when they don't know the facts?

I know alot of you are somehow afraid or intimidated by Rebecca. I'm not gonna BS you, I was at first too. What kept me working for the ECRHA was that I love Roller Hockey, and I wanted to help the sport grow. Rebecca and I butt heads on occasion (SHE'S SHORT, AND SHE IS THE RED HEADED STEP-CHILD), but in this case, I have to agree with her, while the goals of CRHL and NCRHA are the same, we felt the methods for achieving them could be better.

The reason this will be great for roller hockey, is because CRHL never had any competition. CRHL was never pushed to produce the finest College Roller Hockey, because no one ever had a choice in the matter. Now there is a choice. I won't say which option is better, only time will tell.

Many have said that its bad to have more than one governing body. Well, its better than before, when we had 0. In the past, teams were playing by different rules, with different methods for keeping records, using different pucks, totally different websites, and very little was interchangable. NCRHA, which currently has done so with no money, has already began to produce these things. Look at the work Mike Burke has done with NCRHA.org. The website is beautiful, but it will go underappreciated until data starts getting entered. You'll see how opponents stack up, who the big scorers are, news from across the nation, not just an update on Premier program that includes 8 teams. A standardized rulebook will be PUBLISHED ON LINE easy to find on the NCRHA Intranet. A rulebook approved by all the Member Organizations of NCRHA, not a biased few who make the decision and impose it upon the rest of the College Roller Hockey World. Imagine what they'll do when proper funding comes along?

CRHL has let me down personally, as a business, not as people. I believe their intentions were pure. But CRHL overstepped their bounds demanding 185 dollars from EVERY team in the ECRHA before ANY team would be allowed to play at Nationals. Yes, this money was due, yes, some teams were slow to pay it, but did CRHL ever mail an invoice? Never. When I wanted an Invoice, I had to ask for it, then CRHL E-mailed me what looked like the old ECRHA Invoices with CRHL's name plastered across the top. Furthermore, the return on that 185 dollars was non-existant. My school was no furthur marketed by CRHL, than it was by ECRHA in ECRHA's first event, or my own contacts within the inline hockey community. I won't furthur smear CRHL with things I've heard and things I suspect, but what has happened to me I KNOW to be true.

I know the NCRHA is in good hands, from each individual player, up through the leadership of its member organizations, the NCRHA is made of good people. CRHL is no different, but the two share a different vision.

Gary<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by JMUDukes26 on 08/11/03 07:12 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[Rebecca]

<font color=blue>good one Gary. Clown.</font color=blue>

What was that quote from the Ring, before you rang the house and I kicked your butt?

[i]you will *** in seven days[i]

Rebecca

http://community.webshots.com/sym/image5/8/3/85/67580385LGfyvC_ph.jpg

[bsurh35]

This SHOULD NOT turn into a CRHL vs. ECRHA debate. It shouldn't even be a CRHL vs. NCRHA debate. Nayrbs, what Rebecca and Burke are saying is VERY true; the ECRHA has been nothing but helpful in our efforts to rebuild the MCRHL. It is incredibly unfortunate that this had to happen, but it did. I don't like it, and I doubt anyone likes it (being split that is).

As for the MCRHL, I don't have to apologize for the MCRHL of the past season. I was there; I played in it, and complained as much as anyone. Please check my posts throughout this board. I was challenged, however, by Rebecca, to do something about it. I think it is great you are speaking up. I am going to personally assure you that no matter what happens on a national scale, the MCRHL is going to progress by a million times. My official duty this season is to schedule games and events. I have the first semester completed. Do you remember last year when we didn't know until the week before? This year's MCRHL will also feature a play-offs (pending Rule Board approval) that will crown and award a regional champion.

I completely understand your concerns, but do not place the blame on the ECRHA. They have helped us, and they continue to do nothing but help us. Check out mcrhl.com, that is a Mike Burke creation (thanks).

I look forward to seeing, and speaking with you over the course of this year.

[JMUDukes26]

Wait the butt kicking was right after you nearly peed your pants in horror while Picker and I were crying from laughter.

Gary

[nayrbs]

Isn't the purpose of a message board to get the word out, why is NCRHA trying to hide what actuall happened? I want to apologze to the ECRHA for accusing you personally I probably should have used other terminology.

In reply to Rebecca:
Where have you been for the past few years. Did you not think there were any problems?

I have been involved with the CRHL since 1997, when it was not just for college hockey players. I was young and we played in an invitational tournament in Indiana and we got second place and I even got a MCRHL t-shirt. So I have been around CRHL for a while. I also stated before that I did think problems existed and obviously everyone did.

Every region had problems and NCRHA is trying to solve those problems, right?

Guess what, I now know of a couple excellent players and teams that are not going to play anymore because NCRHA abandoned their regions. How is NCRHA going to fix that?

Things were bad last year but they were not bad enough to start another college roller hockey league. All of those individuals who cannot see that another governing body is going to make things worse than you are just clueless to the reality of things.

I want to thank NCRHA(sarcastic) and all those involved with the organization for making my last year of college roller hockey a joke. My team had a good shot at winning nationals this year, but wait WHAT NATIONALS NOW!

In regards to MikeBurke, Wouldn't you like the MCRHL to run as organized as NCT seems to run? Is it all JUST about a national championship tournament? Granted, it's a big part of the national picture, but your 6-month season should run well, not just the last four days of the year.

I would love to see things run better but I am kind of used to things in the MCRHL being messed-up, and guess what? They always work out somehow and we always at least have a chance at NCT.

NCT IS THE BIG ISSUE HERE, what would the NHL, or the NCAA, or any sport be without a concluding even of national proportions? They would be nothing. Players play because they love to play roller hockey but underneath all that they play because they want to be the national champions.

Players want nationals but NCRHA is obviously willing to sacrifice that for their "better run" league to flourish!! In hope that they someday ARE the CRHL!!!! Back to stage 1 everyone, maybe stage 2 because the NCRHA forgot to think about what the players really wanted!

[MBurke]

Ok, breaking my promise to post again, do you realize the things you're saying in your post?

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Isn't the purpose of a message board to get the word out, why is NCRHA trying to hide what actuall happened? I want to apologze to the ECRHA for accusing you personally I probably should have used other terminology.

<hr></blockquote>

NCRHA is not trying to hide anything. Look at what a mess the Pro board on here becomes every time a team misses a game, or a player isn't suspended as long as someone would like. If you'd like answers, you're free to contact any of us - we'd be happy to spend as long as you need to have all of your questions satisfactorily answered.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I have been involved with the CRHL since 1997, when it was not just for college hockey players. I was young and we played in an invitational tournament in Indiana and we got second place and I even got a MCRHL t-shirt. So I have been around CRHL for a while. I also stated before that I did think problems existed and obviously everyone did.

Every region had problems and NCRHA is trying to solve those problems, right?

Guess what, I now know of a couple excellent players and teams that are not going to play anymore because NCRHA abandoned their regions. How is NCRHA going to fix that?

<hr></blockquote>

NCRHA did NOT abandon any region. I don't know who you're talking about, but some reference would be great. Three regions chose to remain with CRHL. That is their choice completely (read Derek See's post below. He's one of your league directors). Yes, we're trying to fix the problems, but we can't FORCE people to join with us if they don't agree on how to fix them.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Things were bad last year but they were not bad enough to start another college roller hockey league. All of those individuals who cannot see that another governing body is going to make things worse than you are just clueless to the reality of things.

I want to thank NCRHA(sarcastic) and all those involved with the organization for making my last year of college roller hockey a joke. My team had a good shot at winning nationals this year, but wait WHAT NATIONALS NOW!

<hr></blockquote>

I'm glad you're so enlightened as to the &quot;reality of things&quot; (sarcastic). How many years have you spent running a college roller hockey organization? The people who left CRHL have over thirty years combined. I apologize that this is your senior year and you feel that it has become &quot;a joke&quot;. I am sure there will be a solution in place to allow CRHL teams to qualify for NCRHA's tournament, and vice versa - maybe even a combined tournament, who knows?

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I would love to see things run better but I am kind of used to things in the MCRHL being messed-up, and guess what? They always work out somehow and we always at least have a chance at NCT.

NCT IS THE BIG ISSUE HERE, what would the NHL, or the NCAA, or any sport be without a concluding even of national proportions? They would be nothing. Players play because they love to play roller hockey but underneath all that they play because they want to be the national champions.

<hr></blockquote>

Ok, so you've admitted that you care most about nationals. This is all well and good if you have a powerhouse that makes NCT every year. What about a team like Rose Hulman (to use an example from your region) that pays their dues every year but hasn't made NCT yet? What do they get for it? I'm not saying that I'm happy with the prospect of having two national tournaments, but hey, even the NFL and AFL had separate championships for years before one proved to be better organized and swallowed up the other. Remember, I'm a senior in college, too. I'm playing for Towson University, who was a Final Four team in DI last year. Do you think I'm HAPPY? No, but right now, I feel this is what's best for the future of college roller hockey. Besides, did you really feel like it was a true nationals last year with the best teams from Michigan State, Lindenwood, Michigan, Purdue, Eastern Michigan, and Ohio State missing?

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Players want nationals but NCRHA is obviously willing to sacrifice that for their &quot;better run&quot; league to flourish!! In hope that they someday ARE the CRHL!!!! Back to stage 1 everyone, maybe stage 2 because the NCRHA forgot to think about what the players really wanted!

<hr></blockquote>

Really? Is that why we've had UNANIMOUS support from teams in our region? Is that why all of the other regions have the support of their teams? Just because it's what you, your team, or your region want, it's not necessarily indicative of the entire country. Don't be so vain as to think we're doing this without team support - heck, if we didn't have it, wouldn't they be leaving in droves to join back with CRHL?


Mike Burke
Commissioner
Eastern Collegiate Roller Hockey Association
http://www.ecrha.net<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MikeBurke on 08/12/03 05:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[JMUDukes26]

Hey,

Okay... Let me set the record straight as best I can. I have been an active member of the ECRHA, and CRHL for the past 2 seasons. I also was one of the brainstormers who was among the first to poder the thought of a new National league. Now, a National league is a farse, if it doesn't provide support throughout the Nation. MCRHL Elected to stay with CRHL this year, as they felt this was in the interest of its teams. The decision was made for the right reasons, and I don't fault them for that. However, the NCRHA has abandoned no one. If there is interest sufficient to develop an NCRHA Member Organization in your region, you have my full support, and you may exhaust my resources in developing one. I will not hesitate to provide any assistance I can provide. The goal of NCRHA is to promote the sport across the Nation, this includes within the boundries of the NCRHA.

As for Rebecca, I can speak somewhat to that as well, if she chooses, I'll let her elaborate.

Rebecca is as comitted to roller hockey as anyone I know. She has built the ECRHA up from a small orgainzation when she came in, to a premier, well organized business, which acts a a proper business, despite many tedious tasks that come with this.

As Regional League Director, and President of the ECRHA, CRHL policy would not allow her to run for a position. The CRHL required that its staff vacate their seats within their regions as a stipulation of working for CRHL. Rebecca was a Tournament Director at CRHL Nationals, and a very active one, who had the balls (well... Ovaries) to make the tough decisions at critical moments. I assure you that while she pissed some people off, she maintained the integrity of the CRHL at Nationals, and the integrity of our CRHL rulebook.

You commented on what would happen if we had another NHL... Well, we did... sorta. The WHA was another pro hockey league back in the 70s. The NHL proved to be a better run league, with a better draw, and more comitted teams. As time passed, teams from the WHA left, and the WHA folded. The WHA teams didn't disappear, nor did its players. You might remember a guy named Wayne Gretzky. The undisputed greatest hockey player of all time. He played in the WHA for the Edmonton Oilers.

This competition was good for the NHL however. It forced the NHL to work a little bit harder to maintain its teams, and soon, its hockey product was better. This is my hope for the NCRHA. NCRHA provies an opportunity for a better hockey product. Either it will force the CRHL to be the BEST CRHL it can be, or the CRHL will continue to lose teams until it is no more.

My personal feelings are that this was necessary because CRHL had been restructured twice, though improvments were coming slowly. They had ridiculious policies that kept the best people out of office, and they prohibited the sport from growing at the college level as fast as it could have.

Many of the things NCRHA will improve will provide an indirect benefit to the players. Each region will be using standardized rink contracts, making less work for the leaders in your regions, so they can focus their efforts elsewhere. Uniting the website so teams can get accurate statistics from a team in California as easily as a team in New York. The goal is to be more than a group of disjuncted regions playing in a common National Tournament, but to be a National College Roller Hockey Community.

"Wouldn't you like the MCRHL to run as organized as NCT seems to run?"

YES!! YES!! YES!! And that is why it has come to this. CRHL wasn't providing new and rebuilt regions the resources they need to get up to speed with the rest of the Nation. There has been alot of ECRHA bashing on this board, but the ECRHA does alot of advanced and innovative things that have helped the region to grow to its massive (nealry 50 teams) size. NCRHA is using many of the lessons learned through ECRHA trial and error, to help bring other regions up to that level with less work, and less expense.

You seem to think the NCRHA is going to ruin Nationals. Not so. There will be a spectacle of a National Championship Tournament this year. It will be the finest ever produced. I hope to see you there. In my opinion, no team should be left behind at Nationals, and we should be united come April.

In closing, if there is anything I can do, for anyone, from any team, to help their program progress. Please do not hesitate to e-mail me at [email protected] or [email protected] Regardless of who you trust, or what your alliances are, be secure knowing that I (and I can only speak for myself here) want what is best for the sport I have come to love, and I will do whatever is necessary to see that the sport flourishes into a great experience for all involved.

Thanks and Regards,

Gary

[nayrbs]

All right everyone, this will probably be my last post on this issue. I have just a couple of things to say.

1.) to NCHRA teams, players, board members, etc. Think of ALL COLLEGE PLAYERS across the country that love nationals and love being able to travel across the country to play for that awesome prestigious title of national champions.

2.) Do whatever you have to do to make it better, if you truly think you can make things better I cannot wait to see the results(SINCERELY).

3.) Please post somewhere, if possible information as to things that caused NCHRA. I think that would help put some minds at rest.

In conclusion, everyone here has a lot of feelings towards college roller hockey, it is good to see this, let those feelings guide your decisions not something else. (That sounds kind of corny when I read it now) but I believe it!

NAYRBS

[JMUDukes26]

okay... first, what is NAYRBS?

This will be speaking solely as president of JMU Roller Hockey...

What did CRHL provide my school for $185?
-No, Nationals doesn't count... that was another $700 so get that out of everyone's heads right now.

-Marketing was a goal, but no one at my school was even contacted to get an idea of what CRHL was. CRHL may try and blame this on the teams, but my Member Org. got a survey to the director of sports clubs and found out some info they needed to better cater to our schools.

-That new CRHL/USAHIL rulebook? Who slapped that mess together?

-I would have liked to see more support for new, and struggling MOs. I know for a fact, that RMCRHA looked to other regions to help establish themselves, in alot of areas where CRHL left them short.

-NCT V- Nationals was a hell of an event, but for the kind of money we paid, I think CRHL should have been expected to do more of the work. Alot of the work for programs and such was passed along to Regional League Directors, and their staff. Had CRHL implemented a better method for compiling data, Seeding teams in the divisions would have been easier, and the workload would have been decreased for the RLDs, who aren't on the NCT payroll in most cases.

-Officials! Some of the referees at Nationals didn't KNOW rules that were points of emphasis for NCT V. Some of this falls on the Ref In Chief, but how much can a guy do in 6 hours? We need a more standardized training process for our officials. As much as I hate them, the ECRHA officials do a decent job... and the CRHL officials were way better than the NARCh primadonnas.

-The MOs wanted Premier out, they felt it was a drain on the resources of CRHL, and it wasn't the right way to promote the sport at this time. CRHL won't let it go (not that I can blame em... they put alot of work into it).

There are some things I think CRHL did right, and I'll give them some credit right now.

-Aside from feeling like I paid for it twice, Nationals was both a well run, and very professional event.

-USAHIL as the mandatory insurance provider. This just makes things easier come Nationals. If everyone is working with the same company there are less complications. It doesn't matter who, USARS, USAHIL, whoever, as long as we're all on the same page, I commend CRHL for that.

-I also give CRHL credit because I know Huck, and I've met Mackert and I've heard how great a guy Andy is... and I think they're great guys (save one person who I didn't really care for), I'm sure I left someone out, but they're probably a good guy too. I LIKE these guys, I have nothing against them. I know Huck worked his balls off for NCT. I guess personality counts to a degree.

As you address the NCRHA teams urging them to do whats right for ALL COLLEGE PLAYERS, I ask the remaining teams of the CRHL to look at themselves and decide what is best for the sport? Could we do better? Do we deserve better? Maybe you were content with CRHL because you never had better? Maybe CRHL really is that good and you just failed to see it. But look at the website that CRHL has been so proud of, and has ranted and raved about, and look at the quickly developing NCRHA.org site, compare the two, and YOU decide what looks best for your team. Look at the format of the Regional League websites, some of which were created by NCRHA's Mike Burke, and notice how uniform things are from region to region. Isn't this what a college league should be? Uniform across the Nation? That National component is important when you are trying to develop a National league.

Ok, I'm still biased, but those are my reasons, if anyone has reasons why a NCRHA team should be a CRHL team... lemme see em...

Gary<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by JMUDukes26 on 08/12/03 08:40 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[paddymac]

"But look at the website that CRHL has been so proud of, and has ranted and raved about, and look at the quickly developing NCRHA.org site, compare the two, and YOU decide what looks best for your team."

The NCRHA page looks great, but big deal that it looks better then the CRHL site. Is that the measure of which league is better? Where was the creator of the NCRHA site when the CRHL was designing theirs?

"Look at the format of the Regional League websites, some of which were created by NCRHA's Mike Burke, and notice how uniform things are from region to region."

Once again great websites and I'm glad he is allowing the regions that chose to stay with CRHL to use them. Where was this when everyone was part of the CRHL? I really can't answer this. Maybe he came up with all of this and told CRHL brass "look I've got some great websites that we can implement across the board that would standardize some things." Maybe they said "we're not intrested" although I can't imagine that happening. The leaders of the CRHL are human and as much as we'd all like them to be they are not perfect. They probably could have used some help, but I know its not easy to ask for it when your supposed to be doing this stellar job and its just not working out. Personally I'd try to work out of it myself first. Giving the current CRHL leadership one season to make a league that gives us every little thing we want for the dollar that we spend is asking way too much. Has everyone forgot that Andy and company have been in office for just one season? Maybe some things were going in the wrong direction, but there were definetly more that were going in the right. They took over a league that gave the teams nothing and started to give them things in return. Does anyone remember anything about the CRHL before last season. Sure you gave CRHL your $185 this year but there were budgets that showed where it went. In previous years you gave your $185 and for all we could figure it was spent on hookers and coke.

[cakeuneke]

Like everyone else, I was sitting out of this one, but I feel like this is a good opportunity to talk about the good points of the CRHL.

First of all, the $185. I agree, those teams that didn't go to nationals, and even those that did, didn't get $185 worth. But, there are people that were working on the business end of things that needed to be paid some money. That 185 was and is not a big deal in the MCRHL, because our directors don't get paid like some of the other directors do. Other regions have bigger regional budgets to pay regional directors, when CRHL was apparently hoping to create a national product, which it is now moving towards, with national employees. Therefore, to ECRHA teams, it seems like they're getting ripped off, but it's really just the way that the ECRHA is run that gives them pretty much everything they want in their own region, which I think is perfectly fine. It's just a different way of looking at it than the CRHL wants to. Financially speaking, it seems to some people to make sense to pay a national organization that governs everyone more than a regional organization which amounted to a middle man in some cases, not in the East Coast. So, it's a very valid argument, but you have to realize that your region prefers to run on its own big budget instead of a nationally administered budget, which is just a different way of going about things.

Marketing. There's a developmental director in the CRHL. So far this season, he has gotten a ton done in the way of marketing. Now, there probably isn't a reason for him to stay. Last year the CRHL did a very poor job of marketing, this year it would have been and hopefully still will be a ton better. But nobody is denying that these weren't problems. Some people I guess just thought they couldn't be fixed.

Rulebook I don't know much about, I haven't even personally physically seen it. But I know that the "CRHL brass" admit to making a pretty poor move there, which was again discussed with the regional directors.

Everyone would have liked to have seen more support for the RMCRHA and MCRHL last season. The new structure that CRHL will provide that support, and much less will be needed than under the NCRHA banner. Regions will instead be "conferences," and they will not need to be their own company, they can just fall under the CRHL banner. The problem has been what if an RLD leaves?? The region can fall apart. That still can happen in the NCRHA. But in the CRHL the only way that can happen is if all the teams ceased to exist. Where there are enough teams, there will be a conference to play in.

NCT V: The reason the regions had to run NCT V for the most part is that the regions made up the Competitive Program. I didn't agree with that 3 Program structure, but it's been fixed. I will point out however that the 3 Program structure was approved by the MOB. Some would argue that it was approved under duress, and that could very well be, but it was approved, and people stood up this year, so they probably could have stood up last year. It was and is not the greatest structure, and the CRHL has again resolved this problem. We will be moving towards a better structure this year.

Officials: Nobody is going to argue, but I will bring up one point. Last year, the rulebooks between regions were not standardized because last year the regions did not come together. That was their role, to run the Competitive Program. They could have done that by standardizing everything, but they chose not to, including rules. I'm not going to claim that all of the officials are great though.

Premier: It's out. It's moving out at least. I have teams in the MCRHL planning to get some games against Premier or DI-A teams this year, which is a great step. By the next season, it will be clear that Premier is just another division and not another program. We got what we asked for here. I don't know why everyone keeps trying to tell me nothing's changed there.

Your last paragraph: Websites could have been standard last year, rules could have been standard last year, eligibility, referee certification, all of that could have been standardized last year, but some regions didn't want to. Now they want to, and everyone's all for that, even the evil CRHL. We're going to have standard game formats within each division as well, so I don't see the issue. Could we do better?? Yes. Do we deserve better?? Yes. But who was trying to prevent us from doing better? As regions, we stood up with one voice and said we have a lot of problems with how things are going. The CRHL heard us, and answered us, but people wanted out. Now we have two leagues, with the same exact goals being administered in slightly different ways which may produce dramatic differences over time. As Burke, Rebecca, Derek, Brandon, and I continue to say, it's not that one way is better or worse, but they're different.

The case for the CRHL is this though. If you want something changed, then change it. We're going to have task forces made up of teams throughout each season to make changes in the way things are. Teams are going to determine how things should be within their resource class. That makes sense to me. But that being said, the NCRHA teams will have a voice also, through their RLD's. That's the extremely unfortunate part. To a player that keeps his or her nose out of all this, playing in either league looks exactly the same. Yet somehow we have to be apart. But that's the way things are and hopefully someday they will rectify themselves.

Thanks for reading.

[JMUDukes26]

You have alot of faith in CRHL, and as a member that is a good thing. The problem lies in that we don't all have that faith in them, because when we have put faith in them to fix problems before, the change was sluggish, or non-existant. For the sake of the sport, I hope you're right and everything will be fixed by CRHL and it will all be peachy.

You mentioned that competitive NCT was run by the RLDs. Well, there are some problems with this, CRHL asked them to do the work, but didn't want to give them real representation in how the program would be run. RLDs have a good idea of what is going on in their regions, and what their regions need. The way CRHL is structured, no RLD can have a CRHL position, so they are kind of detached from the reality of things. I realize CRHL is run by former RLDs, but I'm going to reserve comment on that whole issue, because frankly, these people worked hard for the sport and they deserve respect dispite [mind you minor]mistakes they have made.

At this point, this debate of sorts seems to be getting no where. I think we'll really just have to wait and see. Perhaps we should be spending our time focusing on how to structure a joint National Champioship event. It doesn't do either league any good to have 2 crowned National Champs, so maybe the thing to do is cooperate a little bit... Any thoughts? I'm posting that idea in a new thread... answer there.

Despite my efforts to give Burke and Rebecca credit... they still corrup my signature with this crap...(see below)

Gary the Monkey