male sexism still...

[DannyG]

okay, this one has me so mad I cannot see straight...and I really don't know how to address it, so I feel I shouldn't til I figure it out...

My daughter played the SixPac nationals for two other teams than the ones I coach. She played 10's and 12's this past weekend...

Things went fairly well...usual self-doubts, self-blame for team mistakes, fear of the unknown...all the usual jitters that a caring, committed, fierce competitor gets...

Comes down to the playoff round for the twelves. The coach gives specific directions that defenders are to go up as third & fourth-men-in whenever possible in the second half, as we are behind.

I notice that my daughter is going up a lot of times when it shouldn't have been her play, her defensive partner is never making the break, when she goes, she is somewhat late in her cut, and resultingly not really effective...

I ask her about it after the whole thing...

She reports to me that the coach sent her out there with a variety of different partners on different shifts. All her partners were told, within her earshot, to "pay attention when Caitlin tells you something out there, she knows what she's talking about." I have heard the coaches tell some of the guys this myself.

Caitlin reports that she was making her support runs up the floor at her own decision, because the one guy wouldn't, even when it was clearly his play to make, even when she tried to encourage him, "Go Alex, I've got the back.." after the third such occurrence, Alex turned to her and shouted "Shut up, Bitch!"

Caitlin just went for the play from then on, whenever it was obvious that her partner wasn't going to make the play.
I felt she was very effective the whole tournament. Her two teams finished higher than their age groups ever have in national competition. She had five assists in ten games. She had to play back-to-back games, with the first game overtime. She was coughing and vomiting the whole tournament on the bench in between shifts (respiratory allergens) She never complained one single time about any responsibilities she was given by her two coaches.

I can (really, really) go on and on about how this young women performed, but you get the point...

What can be said about this nonsense? What possessed this second-rate player to voice this obviously envious and deliberately hateful remark to his own teammate?

This young man was not considered for inclusion with the Polar Bears team this year, as he only played in the rec league for about five months of the year. During the ice season, he refused to participate in the inline league (the two programs' games days do not conflict).

I am at a loss to even begin to approach addressing this.

Any ideas out there?



<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[Rebecca]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

after the third such occurrence, Alex turned to her and shouted "Shut up, Bitch!"

<hr></blockquote>

wow, can I assume the coach did not hear this? If you say he/she did and did not repremand that I am going to flip.

With the mouths on some adults and parents these days in front of our children, its hard not to think that this kid finds his response commen place and acceptable and it makes me think he is headed for rough times with a derogatory comment to a teammate like that, male or female. No one needs to be subjected to that from a (12?) year old?? I am sorry your daughter has a rotten teammate. She should say a prayer for him and not give up hope.

She will be a better person and a better athlete. She will enjoy the game and do well, and he will eventually end up in another sport /wtimages/icons/cool.gif

Rebecca

http://community.webshots.com/sym/image5/8/3/85/67580385LGfyvC_ph.jpg

[MDE3]

Unfortuneately what you must do is divorce yourself from being a parent in this case and react as though you had been the coach and Caitlin was not your daughter(easier to say than to do - but a "must").

If the remark had been made between two boys - as it might well have been given today's use of the vernacular - your reaction should be no different than had you overheard this under those circumstances. To react otherwise would simply demean your daughter further as it would smack of giving "special concessions" to her on behalf of her gender, and from what you describe - she competes on her own merits - gender notwithstanding.

There were similar situations (not gender related) when I coached my son. sometimes he was the guilty party and sometimes the victim. In all cases I tried to react as his coach first and parent second. We also had a girl who played with his team and was a good player as well. Calling her a "bitch" probably would have found you on your behind rubbing your jaw lol.

It's a tough sport and there will always be frustration and some injustices - like life - sounds like your daughter handled them well - and for that she should be praised.

[missionhockey21]

I am sad to hear that your daughter was treated that way by another teammate. I would encourage her and tell her how good she is, and it seems like her coaches appreciate her style of defense and would like all their defense to play like her. Tell her Alex was probably jealous of her play. Sometimes a little ego building is very helpful in a situation like that, at least it always has been for me.

[calselect89s]

Danny
I know its tough, I've heard and seen it before. I'm sorry she had to hear this, but she will probably toughen her game because of it. I'm sure she has earned the respect of her real team mates, and they won't support a bad apple like alex. I won't say that it will get any easier though, as the level of play increases, so do the bad apples. She will be always have to prove herself to the new kid and the new coach. It's a fact of life. I've heard the line, "she should be home playing with her Barbie's" and believe me, she's heard the same remarks about the "B____" from plenty of boys, Coaches and Parents! I had one parent at Narch in Florida foaming at the mouth just cause she shouldn't be playing against the boys.
On a side note.. Playing girls hockey, you hear more trash talk from our little princess's than you do in boy's.

[NLane]

Where was the ref? I thought any talk like that was not tolerated. If it was clear enough with a mouthpiece and cage to be heard by a player then it should have been heard by others.

[MDE3]

I think playing two on two for the whole game would be a little tiring don't you?

[DannyG]

Cal:

Your assessment seems accurate...and thanks! to all you responding...I am on a much more even keel this morning...

You have sparked one memory of the past week that was encouraging indeed. I understand your Cal Select 89 program gets to play girls' teams at a national level on ice. For those of us purely on the inline side of the house, the all-girls format only exists in the USAHIL youth nationals (and the Inline Cup adult nationals for the older girls, as well as the women's divisions in the other competitions).

It was a pleasure to note that a plurality of teams had girls participating as prominent players on their squads. Appearances being what they are, it looked like the girls were integral parts of the program, at least through the 12's.

On the down side, you saw the two girls in non-matching pants and helmets (they matched each other, though) on the one team. They were obviously "borrowed" for the event, and not "real" members of the team. Most of the girls seemed to be taking advantage of the "playing down" eligibility rules. A lot of the girls didn't even dress with their teams.

I did have to listen to the "Well, when they get to the 14's, it's different. Girls can't compete when the boys get bigger..."

In spite of all these limitations, Girls' Inline Hockey, as a component of our sport, has made great strides this year. Next year will also show tremendous strides in development.

1. No girls in our program will play down...at least, my daughter will not play down. We perhaps do our girls a disservice by using this crutch.

2. Caitlin will be working her butt off to play competitively at a national level for 13 year olds, regardless of gender. The Polar Bears 14's team will be co-ed.

3. We will continue the regional-level all-girls' Polar Bears teams. Sure hope NARCh Winternationals has those girls' divisions they have been talking about.

4. The Nations-Tobin Hockey League will host an all-girls' event sometime in the spring. This will be a "festival" type event, with all players signing up as individuals. The program will form random teams from ranking players' experience levels, and all the teams will play a round-robin and playoff series of games over a weekend. If you can get to El Paso, Texas in March, plan on coming out for this (hopefully) prestigious event. Girl players will get some high level hockey, in a high quality facility, make a ton of new friends, and have a bunch of fun. What more could you ask for?

Hope to see everybody this coming year, out on the blue floor!


<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[columbus_RHstar]

I would tell her to be in bigger person in this case. The kid is obviously insecure and the fact that Caitlin was chosen over him made him very jealous, given he probably would have been jealous if it had been a boy. The fact that it was a girl (remember when you were growing up and it was embarassing to have a girl picked ahead of you?) probably worsened the whole thing, then when she is making a simple comment, one you would expect to hear between 2 defense-persons, might have seemed more of an order, "you do this, and do like I tell you because I am better" (even though she didn't say it this way he may have interprited that way).

In this case and any case other case of discrimination (be it sex, race, age or anything else) the person being discriminated against should be the bigger person and walk away, head held high.

As for your actions, I would not talk to the boy directly, that may incite teasing of Caitlin about her daddy has to stick up for her, etc. But I would have one of his teammates or friends talk to him, tell him that he was out of line and should apologize, that she was just letting him know what she was going to do, whcih she was 100% correct in doing and that he needs to apologize (you'd be suprised, or not, how much more receptable kids are to their peers than an adult) to Caitlin.

Another way to go about it would be to talk to his parents. Obviously at his age parents are still around alot and driving him to tournaments and the like. His parents may have more of an affect than you would, they can punish him you better than you can. They can do whatever seems appropriate, with some suggestions ("I'd like to see him apologize") from you.

I've seen the same thing happen before, with younger kids cursing on the bench and parents finding out then 'suspending' them from play for a while, and I've seen where girls have been called bitch, hoe, slut, lesbian, and such because of jealousy from an opponent or a teammate (mostly opponents).

The thing that I would do if I was you is stress to Caitlin that he was wrong and that she should be the bigger person and not stoop to his level.

[DannyG]

your comments are extremely insightful...I appreciate that you are a young gentleman, and by all accounts that I have heard from here, a high level player yourself...I had been leaning toward the "people like this don't matter in the long run.." and your suggestions have convinced me that this is the right path.

I have the concern that a young person to deliberately choose to use a word hurtful to a female teammate (Mike's notation regarding the non-gender-specific current use of the word in today's jargon not withstanding) has issues that could cause some problems for them later on in life...I guess it may not be my job to straighten the kid out...he is his own problem, and I do not have to associate myself with this...

As I do come into rec league contact with this individual on a weekly basis (when he does play, anyway), I will be on the lookout for further manifestations of this behavior, as well as indicators that this might have been an isolated incident, not to be repeated.

Thanks! again for an insightful reply...

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[MightyQuinn]

There is absolutely no doubt that Caitlin should not have been abused in this way.

And it does cheer me to see the positive reactions to this negative behavior on this board. But it is by no means the exception for a girl on a team. There is a limit to just how many times as a parent you have to say: you're a better player, you can rise above it, don't let it get to you........

I naively thought sexism had died out years ago, yet like Caitlin I see similar levels of abuse directed at my daughter Robyn. And the pity is, for many of these abusive kids on the rink, this behavior is learnt - from parents, coaches and others who really should know better.

[MDE3]

The problem isn't necessarily sexist although when directed towards a female player it is difficult not to assume that. The problem is the abusive attitude to anyone the player may need to feel superiority over, male or female. The comment was as likely to have been made to a male player as a female player - given today's use of the words chosen.

The problem is the need to demonstrate a need to appear superior and doing so by making derogatory comments.

Without getting too steamed about it - the phrase &quot;bitch&quot; is used constantly in a derogatory fashion between opposing players and even teamates in the heat of battle - regardless of sex. If we were to eject a player everytime it happened there would be no one left to field a team. That it was made to a girl - playing on an otherwise all male team - makes us all bristle, but try to keep things in perspective. Would this post ever have happened if the comment was directed at a guy? Even though the intent was the same? These are all adolecents remember - all trying to &quot;make an impression&quot; on the world and elbow their way into their share of the limelight. Not to excuse the comment, because I'm no fonder of hearing it directed at an opponent or another teamate of the same sex - but the problem is not that it was directed at a girl but at a team mate. I'm sure Caitlin's sensitivities fall more along these lines as well.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MDE3 on 07/07/03 06:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[columbus_RHstar]

Thank you for your gracious comments about my post, I appreciate them. I wish however that I did not have to make that post in the first place (meaning the event never took place).

As Mike notes the word has lost some of its gender specifity lately however the word is still hurtful and sometimes people don't realize that just because it's accepted to say it among your guy friends, your female friends will most likely find it hurtful.

[DannyG]

true enough, I am also sure that my sensitivities were afronted much more than Caitlin's...and it is highly probable, that because it was from a defensive linemate that she was trying to help, was no doubt the source of her concern...

however, in the formula for success at a national level:

1. Seven skaters a a goalie,
2. A quality team system of creative offense and patient defense,
3. eight players and a coach that would live and die for each other,

this kind of incident tends to totally destroy a team...I confess, that, even in somewhat cooler reflection, I don't want anything to do with this kid. His obvious attitude, when things start going bad, is to lash out at a teammate, and ignore the coach's instructions??? I don't think so...

So, as Tommy pointed out somewhere in this discussion, addressing this as a specific incident does no good, because there is too much underlying attitude and belief that this behavior is somehow acceptable.

This young man, however, will need to demonstrate a quantum leap of changed behavior, over a long period of time, prior to my considering him for a position on any team that I am associated with.

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[MDE3]

Exactly!!!! The same thing should be true if he behaved in this fashion to a male team mate. Who needs the strife when you are trying to create a team?

That Caitlin is a girl and maybe a better player too, no doubt added insult to injury in this case. However had Caitlin been a boy but a "rookie" and younger - but also a better player and given some authority to direct the action on the floor by the coach - this player no doubt might have had the exact reaction we saw here.

[MDE3]

Point of dialect lol.


When the word is applied to a woman or girl it usually is in the old context of a female dog who is both nasty and aggressive. When used to describe a female team mate in the heat of hockey battle - is this necessarily a bad thing????

When the word is used to describe a man, it is usurped from prison slang and refers to a helpless sexual slave belonging to another male.

Now which one would you rather have on your team???

[JohnHockey1798]

I have never coached a kids team or a team with mates and females on it. I have played with women before and have not had any problems with name calling. I also play in a adult league. There is one thing i do know is that kids espically teenagers have very filith mouths( the cuss a lot). I noticed it when i played one year highschool and have heard the youth games. But this type of behavior is not approiate and it does affect the team chemistry. Maybe this kid needs to learn what a team is. I am just expressing my opinion.

John

[NLane]

If that was a question to me, Mike-I don't get it...

[NLane]

When my son played a JOC rating of USARS, or whatever it was at that time, there were 5 players on the team. Jennifer was the goalie and Amanda, Christie, Ian and James were the other players. No subs and they took 4th. This was ball and sissy stick but it happened and they are in the Book of Champions. Keep those girls playing!!!

[missionhockey21]

I think the only way girls wont have to face that saying about not being able to handle it in the older age groups is not to play down, because it hinders their skill level.

[missionhockey21]

Good post Tommy. I have seen the same thing happened to girls and name calling. But I agree that Caitlin should be told to be the bigger person, because its obvious the other kid is very immature.

[MDE3]

Sorry didn't mean to be too cryptic - but my point was if players got tossed for using that word - there would be almost no one left to play.

[missionhockey21]

As myself being a youth, the word "bitch" is used regardless of gender. I have seen many teammates called it by the other team or even teammates.

[MDE3]

Without appearing to be too insensitive - I have to agree - this is hockey and played at a high emotional level. When we sit on the sidelines - our emotions boil as well - particularily if we feel someone on our team is treated unfairly - that will never change. When a teenage girl who is competing in what is de facto "a boy's league" appears to be unfairly treated, it is natural for this transgression to take on a greater significance than it may really have merited.

However using the incident to point out that playing with a modicum of class, and being supportive of your team mates is also valid. Maybe even more important in the overall scheme of things.

[missionhockey21]

It sounds like the young vulgar boy on that team has not yet learned what to say and what not to say to a girl, regardless of whether you are playing hockey or not.

[missionhockey21]

Even though I dont like to use this term often, it sounds like that boy would be a "cancer" to your team. Hopefully he grows up and learns how to respect his coach and teammates.

[missionhockey21]

I've been on older teams and when I made an error I have been called some terrible things (espicially by some adult players). But my dad has always told me I could "take" more than my brothers because I got into hockey at age 3 vs. 6. lol

[missionhockey21]

Youth today use all sorts of curse words, but I doub they know the true intent behind them. They just use them as derrogatory words to put another player down.

[missionhockey21]

Very true, sometimes one negative influence like that kid can ruin a team.

[missionhockey21]

Hockey is hockey. If I am watching my little brother play and he gets checked illegally, even in the slightest way I get riled up. But if it was any other kid I probably wouldnt of noticed. But if a team wants to be succesful they need to work ass a whole without the kind of comments made to Caitlin.

[missionhockey21]

You cant kick players out for cussing or like you said there would be no one left to play. I have cussed during a game, never directed at anyone, usually about my own mistakes but the most a ref ever did was tell me "watch the language son." But maybe if it was excessive and at another person the refs should take consideration, I know I would.

[columbus_RHstar]

When the word is applied to a woman or girl it usually is in the old context of a female dog who is both nasty and aggressive. When used to describe a female team mate in the heat of hockey battle - is this necessarily a bad thing????

I would say yes, because it may effect your teammate in a negativ e way during the game, which hruts the team if she plays worse.


Now which one would you rather have on your team???

I'd say neither, but if I ahd to choose I'd go with the latter, as it is less likely to effect the male, at least it has in my experiences.

[columbus_RHstar]

I've done it before too, who hasn't? Very few players, usually when it gets out of hand some refs will give you a warning, or keep the volume down, that they don't mind but there are little kids around who can hear it.

[DannyG]

Tommy dude, I don't think we've seen Mike wax etymological before, but I'm pretty sure he was kidding about the thing...

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[missionhockey21]

Its hockey, and in the heat of the battle things will be said. Growing up aroud the rink I always heard it and that will probably not change. But to get a little more back on topic, whenever I have gotten mad at a teammate and called them something or whatever I usually apoligized later and thats what this kid should do.

[MDE3]

whew.......thought I might have to answer that.

[MDE3]

Excellent point!!!

[missionhockey21]

I am personally not insulted by the term, and I dont think many guys are. But imo that is kind of a sad thing.

[DannyG]

I agree, you do that because you know that you made a mistake...I don't have any problem here separating the behavior from the person. Doing a bad thing does not make for a bad person. Even good people, and best friends, make mistakes and get angry with each other...

-but-

my actual concern, as a parent, youth coach, and player myself, is that this kid doesn't think he did anything wrong...I perceive any apology under present circumstances to be hollow, and only parental-directed...in such a case, the kid just goes off afterward and gets more angry, now directing even further resentment toward his teammate...unless there is any indication that the kid realizes he is the perpetrator of a wrong, he will just feel the aggreived party...

Last night, I actually made the coach of the team aware of the incident, and only because this problem can hurt his program in the future. That's about all I can do in the situation. I cannot think of anything else (except further discussion with my daughter) that will have any positive effect.

Thanks! again to everybody for this discussion.

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[missionhockey21]

When I said apologize, I meant that day, or very soon after the incident. With him realizing he was at fault, not being forced to apoligize to save his own skin.

[DannyG]

Yes, that's what I meant also...you are doing it for the right reason..this individual would not be...

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[columbus_RHstar]

Wow I misinterpreted that one huh? *feels shame and embarassment*

[missionhockey21]

Thats what I figured.

[colohockeydad]

I wanted to give an account of another incident at 6-Pac. We were short goalies and were lucky enough to pick up a goalie from Texas (thanks TXgoaliemom). The team played their 1st 2 games on one evening and the following day, I saw two of the skaters standing outside the hotel waiting for their ride. Since I didn't see the games, I asked how they did. I think they told me they won one and lost one, but what I remember from the conversation was their unsolicited praise of their female goalie. "Megan played great" the two boys announced together.

[TXGoalieMom]

Thanks colohockeydad. Megan enjoyed playing with the boys VERY much. Great group of kids. They were a smaller/younger team and overall they all played very well. Given a year to grow and gain experience they will be very competitive next year. I truly hope we get the chance to play together again. We will be in Florida and Georgia at the end of July and Vegas again in September. Be sure to look for us if you are at these tournaments.

[calselect89s]

TXGoalieMom
Are you and Megan going to NARCh?
If so what team are you playing for?

[TXGoalieMom]

Yes. We fly in on the 26th. Megan is playing with the Black Stars. Megan was looking to play for an additional 14U team, but found that the rules prevent her from playing Silver. Are you going to be at NARCh? If so, what team?

[calselect89s]

Playing for Hyper Cal Selects. Hope to see you there.

[RichardGraham]

Hi,

If you and TXGoalieMom and others going to the NARCh Finals in Florida will put updates from the tournament on this Message Board, I'd appreciate it. I won't be able to make it, as I have a "real" job. /wtimages/icons/wink.gif

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[calselect89s]

Rich
I'll certainly clue you in on the women's platinum and the girls division.

[missionhockey21]

Hockey is hockey, it doesnt matter if it is boys or girls, so its good to see they appreciated another players play "even if it was a girl."

[goaliesaurus]

I am glad to see others out there that see the girls as a force to be reckoned with on the floor and the ice. My daughter is a Cammi Granato camp veteran and she is always in demand as a goalie. Because we live in a no-hockey zone in PA, she has to play with the boys and alot of times she makes the difference because boys don't know how to handle her. I have found that girls learn and play better because they can spell the word TEAM and comprehend that there is now I in the word.
Stephanie has her own group of followers and lives by Cammi's motto "YOU WISH YOU COULD SKATE LIKE A GIRL!"
I wish I could get enough girls to skate at our arena. Check it out at www.cpihl.org as there is a great picture of our facility and she would love to have more girls to be on her team.

[HockeyFanAtic]

Females in the game are good for the sport but only if they compete at the level of that age group. They gain the respect of that boy who called the girl a Bitch. I say this because I know of a few boys who are really pissed at a coach because he picked a girl for his team over a good male player only because the girl can play a full division down and that caused the boys who were age appropriate for that team to be looked over. Those boys who were looked over will resent the girls no matter what age they play in because of what that coach did to them. It had nothing to do with skill because the boys were deffinately better skilled but had to do with the fact that the girls would be bigger and with the fact that they are older they are more mature. This would not of happened if the girls had to play in the age appropriate divisions. The thought there is if there good enough to play at that level then they should compete. You can explain to a boy at 12 that he was beat out by a 12 year old girl because she is better skilled then he is. But when you try to explain to a 12 year old boy that he was left out because a girl that is 14 is playing in the spot that normally he would of filled that is where you find that boy calling the girl more then a "Bitch". I've seen a few girls from a team called the Everblades come to a Nationals with 2 girls that were bigger then my brothers whole 12U team and were nasty with there sticks. But the problem in the game was that they were dishing out slashes and hits but as soon as the boys were tired of it and retaliated the ref's were all over the boys. If equality is wanted then they should be able to take what they dish out as well. Play in their age appropriate level this way a boy who is beat out for a spot clearly know's that he was beat for that spot because she was clearly the better player not because of age!

[lurules8]

It's too bad that just because someone comes equipped with female body parts, they or someone else thinks they need to make concessions for them. Granted, there aren't as many leagues for girls and women to play in but there are enough opportunities that girls shouldn't be bumping the spots of younger boys. If girls are good enough to play in their age appropriate division, then let 'em. But, if they're not the girls should play in the girl's division. And, if there aren't enough girls to fill an age division, leagues / tournaments should expand the age divisions in the girls divisions and not place the burden on the boys leagues. No reason why the boys should suffer just because they're not female. Sigh - sometimes, it's embarrassing to be a hockey player who happens to be female when most of the female players want to be treated like "female players" rather than just as hockey players.

[HockeyFanAtic]

rmquickchange your right in the fact that this issue has to be addressed at the top to have them change the rule and have the girls compete at the age appropriate levels but I can say that I've seen coaches use it to their advantage and draw female players because of size and maturity over the basic skill of a male player because they feel that if they have 5-6 boys that 2-3 girls with size can always drop and play defense especially if they are big and feisty because they will and always are overlooked by the refs for infractions. I know of some Cali teams that basically draw big numbers to tryouts that will line the players up by birth age and pick those players that have birthdays that are like 1/1 because they are physically bigger then the others and then add the extra year for the girls and basically you have a 14U playing in the 12U division. But in the West you can get away with it because you have a huge turnout for tryouts. But you say that you have never had the request from a girl to play down. I know quite a few who know and milk that rule and are alienating good girl players because the boys are beginning to hate playing with them. Personally I would much rather play with 8 solid fast skaters who can play both ends then to play with 5 skaters with skills and 3 girls that only plug the roster and don't match up skill wise and have friends that are our age get turned away from the team that do have the skills but are smaller in stature and are passed over because of the girls size. Grant it that if the girl is the same age and legitamately beats the boys out in the appropriate age division that she deserves to be there and the boys will know and respect her for her skill.

But to play the age game because of size and not skills honestly is horse S--t.

[HockeyFanAtic]

I know quite a few girls with skills that continue to play down and all they do is basically hack and play a physical game agains the boys that are younger then them and when you see them skate with boys their own age they play the game without being physical. Hey not that I am knocking girls playing because there are some that are good but when you look at a girl on one of the elite teams you usually see them on defense not offense. Normally your quicker more skilled players are on the offense. You can play with a slower and physical player on defense. I have skated with a girl that was awesome and we respected her because she was my same age and didn't hesitate going into the corners. She also played ice with us and hey we had eachothers backs. She was great to play with once she decided to play at her age because before she was playing down and basically dominating the younger division and decided to take the challenge and hey all of the guys on our team respected her because she could skate and would be the first to drop the F bomb if something went wrong. She was one of the guys. AGAIN she earned her respect because she played at her correct age and she earned her spot on the team. She was one of our better skaters. Girls like this I respect!

[-venom-]

lol.... anyone who slashes me, male or female, is getting two handed right back, twice as hard. Willing to give it out, sure better be able to take it..... regardeless of sex

[HockeyFanAtic]

Well I wouldn't go that far WRXRioT. Yea if they dish it out they should expect to get it back. But I would definitely think twice about it first. That is why it is so important for them to be made to play in the same age groups as the boys because they will respect players of their peer group. But when they play down they are older and some actually feel superior to the younger players. This should not be happening. It's like putting a 14U player on a 17U team. If that kid happens to get around one of the older boys you know the next time he goes out that they will be marking him up. The older players don't like to be made to look like fools by a younger player. I speak from experience. I have come up against this issue with playing mens. I want to play up and when I get a chance to make a move around a player i go full force but I know that the next time I come up against that same player that they are gonna do everything they have to to make sure that I don't make them look sick again including taking out my legs or the slash. The girls are put into that position because they are older and if a smaller player or younger player pulls a move on them they are gonna try to reclaim themselves the next time they are matched against you.
Brings me back to a quick story:
I was playing PeeWee and there was this girl on the other team that was pretty and I had the hot's for. SO I put on a show and did some sick stuff on the floor. Well the bottom line was that the next time she was matched with me she basically flattened me and then fell on me. Well I didn't mind that she fell on me but the check put a nasty bruise on both of my arms and it took me out of that game. She did come over after the game and apologies but that was as far as it went she didn't really care about me. I was hoping for her to kiss it and make it feel better! (LOL)

[bonesy21]

That sucks,

relatively speaking, cammi granato is a neighbor to my friend, or i should say used to.....shes from downers grove, il...besides the fact, cammi has always been a very well respected individual and she definitely knows what shes talking about...on the contrary, if any guy yelled at any player on my team, regardless if it was a guy or girl, i would sit him for the rest of the game...additionally, ive seen girls who are a helluva lot better than some of the guys...i currently play roller hockey for michigan state university, and last year we had a lovely lady come to tryouts in basically no equipment...she ended up not trying out, but man, iwished she would have played...it would have initiated the idea of having more ladies tryout...but all in all, anyone with youngsters who are male of female, i definitely think the sport is growing, and with the help of the ladies, i think its great to see...rollerhockey is a less physical sport, and it lets everyone show off their skills moreso than ice hockey, and i love it! with the womans division at narch, and a few other tournaments, its a great way to advertise about unity at all levels...overall, i love to watch the woman play, maybe part of its cuz im a guy and a girl that can skate...holy molasses batman, but its also fun to watch...good luck to all the teams, and whatever you ladies do, dont let the guys push ya around, and if they try, dont be shy, put em on their A*S.....

[bonesy21]

sorry to intrude, but firstly, if you had a team in 14U that was beating teams like 20-1, woud that be fun? if a player or a team is good enough, let them move up..yeah it may be a bit more physical, but the physical part comes with age.....the players and teams will learn the system and how to play the body in a better division or age group...its common sense...and i feel that if youre good enough to play up, then do so....its a honor to play up and i would have players doing it all the time if they could hang...it teaches them more about the game and honestly, even if a phenominal team that was beating teams in their division who moved up and got beat by a few goals....thats when you learn....in order to be the best, you have to learn from the best, even if it requires moving up a division....secondly, as far as the hole lady playing in a division lower? i dunno....i think players should play in their respectable divisions without moving down a divsion...but its been a fact that the ladies are allowed to move down a division...who cares...i really don think they get all star treatment and dont get calls when theyre more physical..theres a difference...a girl whos a bitch who slashes everyone and doesnt play fair or females who want to play down a level because theyre more suitable for that league...let em play and if your son got beat out by a girl, then get your son better, and get him on the team the next time....

[HockeyFanAtic]

This is a very funny response bonesy21:
(if your son got beat out by a girl, then get your son better, and get him on the team the next time....)
The boy who is not my son he is a friend, (my kids will be ready to play when they are born) tried out for a team that basically told the girls that tried out for them that they had to play the appropriate age division and made that team. They came back to kick our butts and he scored 5 goals himself. Made our coach look stupid for cutting him and going with the older and big girl who could only play defense. Not knocking that girl because she would probably be a huge stud on a girls team. Your comment about ref's not overlooking the play of a girl is wrong because it always happens. Rub a guy off the puck in a corner and the play contiunes now rub a girl off a puck in the corner and automatically the hand goes up. Seen it so many times. Always happens. Don't dare retaliate if you get slashed by a girl because your guaranteed to make it to the box!

[calselect89s]

HockeyFanatic
I can only speak in about the girl players I have been around, so I will not generalize. 5 of these who are all under 16 have played AAA roller hockey on boys teams and have played either defense of offense. As a matter of fact one of these girls was runner up in scoring at Narch a few years back. Most of them play together now on an ice team and still are playing boys roller in bantaam or peewee levels. Sure they beat out some boys, and the boys had to find another team. But to generalize and say that this happen to often is not correct. The statement about penalties is correct, girls get the benifit of the doubt, but don't retaliate, i personally saw one on these girls beat a 14 year old boy up in front of his teammates.

[MDE3]

Referencing the defensive selection of size rather than skating and stick handling skills from HockeyFanAtic above......I agree with the philosophy of rmquickchange.

It is a very common coaching error to select players who are slower, and maybe have weaker hands to play on your defense, simply because of the physical size, or because they are not effective offensively. It is even more important in roller hockey than ice hockey, although it is true there as well, to have good speed, agility and hands on your defense, due to the limitations on checking in inline versus ice.

You need some of your best sticks and agility down low, in order to win the battles for the puck in your own zone, and secondly, you need defensemen with good &quot;heads up hands&quot;, and some skating skills to get clear of the forecheck, to intitiate the breakouts. This is true regardless of sex. Watch the Mudcats.....who do they use down low? None other than CJ Yoder.

If the girls you are talking about being played down, are there simply because they can get away with being physical, but are slower and have weaker hands, they should be duck soup for speedy forwards(of either sex), with good hands who will outrace them to the puck, and should be able to gain control and move the puck to a linemate before the slower players can be effective. In addition if these larger defensive players have weak hands, they will cough up the puck when challenged by agile forecheckers with good hands.

If there is an intimidation factor because the forecheckers are afraid of being hit and it not being called.....change the forecheckers, this is hockey!

[bonesy21]

lol...thats great, what a pimp your friend is...scoring 5 goals....thats the way to do it tho..if you get cut, sometimes it gives people incentives to come back stronger and with a bigger desire to do well..obviously your friend deserved to be on that team and the coach had made a bad decision..at any rate, ive been reffing for numerous years, both at a regional and a national level....i have talked to numerous refs about that same aspect and all the refs have said, psshh...why would i want to give a girl the advantage? they dont....just sometimes people want to think certain things when theyres physically no proof to back it up. just a theory tho...

[bonesy21]

Now richard,
i dont think you can toss out the excuse that work or your "real job" is a priority. all the parents and kids, coaches and players who will be attending will be missing work? because in my mind, school, hockey, drinking and ladies come before work...common, everyone knows that...lol..just kidding, but richard, we wished you could be there, its always going to exciting to see more pictures updated on your picture site. i mean common, those pictures from foreign lands are great, plus id love to see the pictures of you on there with the new MTV celebrities, the chicago magic.

david

[bsu_bec]

i am a female and i play for ball state's b team...

it's too bad that girl didn't try out....woulda been interesting to see another girl out there...because as far as i know, i'm the only girl playing for any of these college teams....it is interesting to see the other guys' reactions to it...usually they're pretty cool, but on occasion you get the guy (or even a whole team) that try to pick on you about it....but it comes with the territory, so i don't mind much...

i can't imagine what it'd be like to play on a girls' team though...ive always played with the guys...

[Hockey_Girl]

This is kind of a late reply but i've only just joined the forum so here goes....i am shocked to hear about the way Caitlin was treated, by the sounds of things this Alex clearly is not a team player and obviously does not really take the game seriously. As for how you approach i honestly don't know, i jmean by the sounds of things Caitlin has a tough time breathing n stuff, n she sounds like a great player, but with Alex not doing anything and her having to do more,it i should imagine put more stress on her. I would really be angry if anything like that happened to me, there is no "i" in team. So to Caitlin i would say good for her, she took the resposibility upon herself, and for Alex i would say your not worth the effort, you cant play in a team when you leave your responsibilities up to someone else
Good Luck in the future
Hockey_Girl