View Full Version : Ridiculousness
06-18-2003, 10:11 AM
OK, need to vent after last night. I play in a league sponsored and run by a local travel organization. Needless to say, the players that play on the various travel teams this organization has have teams entered into our league. These teams actually comprise 3 of the 6 teams in the league I play in.
Now to my frustration. Last night, we were playing against one of these teams. Now I have played hockey for many years, starting with ice when I was 5. During any game we play against any one of these teams, we lay a finger on any of these guys and we get a penalty. They hook, slash or trip us and the refs tell us to stop diving.
Now last night really put me over the edge. One of our players made an aggressive play on one of their players. By aggresive I mean he forced the puck away from him and then made sure that the guy wasn't going anywhere.. The other player proceeds to kick our player, which in turn our player responded by going after him.
In ice hockey, a kicking penalty is a 5 minute major and game misconduct, with a possible match penalty given where you need to go before a review board to determine length of suspension.
In the game last night, our player received a 2-minute penalty for roughing since he went after their player for kicking him.
THEIR PLAYER RECEIVED NO PENALTY AT ALL!!!
This seems to happen every week. Now you may think that I am complaining about not getting calls, but when this continues week after week, and only against certain teams, I have to take notice and voice my opinion.
Anyways, I was wondering if anyone else has this problem in their leagues. Also, if this has happened, how have you dealt with it and has anything changed?
06-18-2003, 10:40 AM
The refs in our leagues usually know the "better" skaters and they are the ones who will get the calls more often than the "non" skaters. Are kids reffing? From what I've read on here the house leagues have really low experience refs. We have 1 ref that's been around FOREVER and calls a really neutral game but we are not the norm (are we ever?). Get rid of that ref or go to another place to play. I can understand a kicking in ice would be a big deal, but not so much in inline-unless to the head of a downed player. Doesn't the league split up these "A" players and spread them to other teams? If they don't that stinks. They owe you for being a "practice" team!!
06-18-2003, 11:15 AM
I know what you mean. Certain players will get the calls and certain teams get the calls. The league allows some teams that are good to stay in the lower league but will kick teams out that aren't friends with management. One of the teams i play on has been labeled a team to call penalties on. this happend before i started playing on it. IT is a #%ckd situation but i think it will happen until all the rinks are forced to be part of a governing body and the refs and mangement have to follow there rules. On the kicking incident I get suspended for the 3rd man in but a guy on a team like you are talking about was a 3rd man in and didn't get suspended. I have gotten use to it which is sad but until another facility is built there is no other place to play.
06-18-2003, 11:23 AM
OK.. Theres stuff like this that happens all over the place in all kinds of rinks.. depends on how corrupt the "inner circle" or the "rink rat crew" is in the rink. (no offense to rink rat wheels, thats just what Ive always called those groups of players that are on the "inner circle") To me, it sounds like it goes pretty deep in your building and the inner cirlce is the entire travel team program and it sounds like they let them get away w/ a lot. OK, Ive seen this b4, as a player Ive seen this. As a director I'd never tell anyone to do this but.. heres what u do.. Im sure youve already tried to talk to the director about it correct? Im going to assume that you have and you got no real response or action, Im also going to assume that there isnt another rink in your area. OK, meet up w/ the other Non-travel teams in your league and get them to agree w/ you and then go to the director and tell them that if the problem isnt fixed asap, those 3 non-travel teams are going to pull out of the league.. guaranteed you'll see something change pretty quickly and for 2 reasons.. 1) directors (good ones anyway) dont like to lose teams or money and that would be a loss of half the league (a lot of $$) 2) a lot of these "inner circles" tend to get a lot of breaks and/ or free hockey so, he needs those full-paying non-travel teams to bring income, w/out them he's in real trouble.. so try that and see what happens but, make sure its all 3 of the non-travel teams in on it. It will get a response and the complaint will be addressed.
Because the organization of inline hockey is so diffuse, it is more difficult to effect what I have had to do in ice hockey for a similar situation. We broght in "evaluators" to monitor the reffereeing of one individual whom we knew was biased - for reasons unrelated to the games. The ref in question did not know he was being evaluated. As a result of these evaluations the ref was banned from reffing in our rink, and limited to reffing non contact games of 10 and under - in house only.
Within the structure of USA Hockey there is a mechanism to effect this, but a simple complaint will not start the process - it took a concerted effort of multiple coaches (from competing teams) as well as copies of the game sheets showing the penalty distributions. These were sent to the section head of USA Hockey refferee's for the NorthEast US and the process took place over almost a 6 month period.
I don't know if there is any well defined hierarchy for your referee's or even what organization you are affiliated with (USARS/AAU or USA Inline - or another. But usually one or the other holds the insurance coverage - and should be willing to pay attention to valid and documented complaints(it is important to have the complaints documented and witnessed if possible by non interested parties). If you have a regional or "section" "referree in chief" for your governing organization - start with written complaints addressed to him and as well documented as you can make them. Because complaints about referees are as common as fleas on a dog, it is important that you broach your problem as objectively and as calmly as possible and maintain a real sense of being fair in your evaluation(s. It is easy in this emotional sport to overeact and become subjective - which is not fair to the refs either - they do have a difficult task most times. However abuses occur with refs as they do with all others involved in the games and where these abuses impact player safety - they should most certainly be brought to light.
06-18-2003, 01:18 PM
Thanks for the replies.
A few great ideas. The monitor idea was truly interesting. I just don't think that is going to happen around here.
The other ideas about leaving the facility are good too. We'll have to see what we could do for next year. Let's just say that our team is not thinking of paying the remainder of our league dues for this season, unless something is done in regards to the officials.
One thing I forgot to mention is that the "commissioner" or "head of the league", if that is what you want to call it, plays on one of the travel teams. His game was after ours and he saw everything and did not do anything about it.
Anyways, I just needed to see what everyone had for ideas into this. I just can't stand having to suck up to people just to play a fair game, which is what they are truly promoting in these leagues. It's like you have to be friends and this is just a house league and don't take it seriously. Well, for some of us it is the only night we can play, and we wish to play at a competitive level. I don't want to play pick-up games anymore.
06-18-2003, 04:59 PM
I've ahd this same problem, I played last session in ione of the adult leagues, and it seemed that because I was the youngest kid, the only one not 18, other players were allowed to play more of the body on me, I really don't mind except when I played just as hard back I got called, not retalitory either.
Also in my youth league our director, whose son has one only one championship, the season he played with us, has his son's team stacked, they have 3 travel players (not his son) 1 who is 18 and plays in the adult league, plus someone who plays junior hockey for the Columbus Crush, and the best goalie. But they haven't made the finals in 3 seasons, and didn't this time either, they only scored 1 goal in 2 games as a matter of fact. They also get plenty of calls for them and against there opponent.
So no your rink is not the only place it has happened.
One more, I got suspended last season for giving a kid a facewash after he slashed our goalie about 4 seconds after the whistle (I woulda hit the kid but the ref grabbed me, so I settled for a facewash), then in our championship our smallest player, and the smallest in the league was cross checked from behind into the boards with no call, so there was a brawl (starts by me goin after the kid) and if we get a new building I am suspended the first half of the season.
06-19-2003, 09:56 AM
Well, maybe the ref didnt see the "kick" and just your team mate attacking the other player. I ref, coach, and play both ice and roller. I think one of the reasons that I am a "better" ref is because I know that in MOST cases, a player will not just go at another for no reason. Even if I didnt see the kick, I would have called at least a rough on each player.
We also need to keep in mind what roles we are in. When I coach and play, I notice more penalties against us then for us. When I ref, I try to be as fair as possible to both teams. Players and coaches yell, but they should be focused on the game and team play, not penalties. Now, there are times when I ref teams I know. BUT I am more likely to give them a penalty that they didnt deserve because I dont want others to think that I may be playing favorites. Is that fair?
06-19-2003, 10:13 AM
I just want to play a fair game and I don't see that happening in our current situation.
I can see it from both sides, as a player and as a ref, since I myself have reffed previously. I don't care who you are, you could be my best friend, a penalty is a penalty. You can complain and bicker and call me whatever word you choose at the time, but you are still getting the call.
And I am not out there to make friends, playing or reffing. That is for before and after the game. I am not gonna make calls as a ref to stay impartial or partial to one team or another. That creates a negative environment and does not provide fair play to all teams.
I took a look at the penalties called on our team after the first 3 weeks, since this is all the info I can get my hands on now, and wouldn't you know it, we have 12 PIMs and the 3 teams I made reference to have no more than 4. Heck, I even got elbowed in the head against one of these teams and got called for diving.
I understand the difficulties involved in reffing hockey. But if you make calls, please make sure you are consistent, regardless of who the player/team is. We all want to play a fair game.
I know exactly what you mean - I have both coached and reffed in my son's games - he always got the most critical attention and got away with nothing - either as a player with me coaching or with me reffing his games. What would have been a marginal call on another player would put my son in the box - so there was no accusation of bias. I stopped doing both so we could still have a civil conversation lol.
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