NEW elite league in 2004

[wrlpres]

Dear interested parties:

The World Roller League will commence play in May 2004. The following is a blueprint for the league:

1) this is not a "pro" but rather an elite league
2) the league will have between 6-12 teams
3) teams will play anywhere between 10-16 games depending on the number of teams
4) games will be standard roller hockey rules (ie. 4 on 4, etc..)
5) the games will be 4 quarters of 10 minutes stop time
6) teams will be based anywhere in Canada and the United States, so that any city/town can have a team.
7) teams may dress 12 skaters and 2 goalies but may carry 18 skaters and 3 goalies on their roster
8) teams will only play teams in reasonable travel distance from their home base. (ie. a team in Toronto will not play a team in Florida during the regular season).
9) the league will be played from until august
10) THIS IS A SERIOUS LEAGUE

The website for the league will be up withing the next month or so. If you are interested in your organization joing the league, please e-mail me at [email protected] and I will give you more details.(ie. team entrance fee, etc..)

Thank you all for your time and I look forward to hearing from those interested.
Marc Lefebvre
President, World Roller League

[RichardGraham]

Hi Marc,

Nice to hear from you. Good luck with your league.

Not that it particularly matters, but where are you based? In Canada?

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[missionhockey21]

Sounds interesting. I wish you and your league much success Marc.

[-venom-]

Yet ANOTHER league?

'Pro', 'Semi-Pro', or 'Elite'...... whatever you wanna call it....... another one??

Nobody is gonna take this seriously when there's 50 leagues like this...... maybe I should start one up too.....

[missionhockey21]

WRXRioT i'll start one up with you ;-)

[wrlpres]

Hey Richard and others,

thanks for the support. Yes I am based in Canada. Ottawa in fact, but it does not matter to me where the teams are located aslong as it is competitive and promotes the sport both in the US and especially Canada.

Thanks
Marc Lefebvre
President, World Roller League

[DannyG]

Marc:

Congratulations on your new endeavor. Please accept a personal "thank you" from myself on behalf of all of us in the inline hockey community.

It is very important for regional competition leagues to continue to grow and find new ways to develop. A program that is national in it's organizational scope, yet focuses on regional-level competition, is something that might well fill the step in between full amateur and full professional competition.

We in El Paso, Texas would be included in a New Mexico, Arizona, Southern Colorado, Southern Nevada Region. We anticipate being able to participate in such a program in a few years (2006 is our target date), and would look forward to participating in the World League if that would benefit everybody.

Please let me know how I can help you.

Daniel T (Danny G) Guard
Founder,
El Paso Polar Bears Inline Hockey (since 1999)

post script:

Guys, this is exactly the type of program that is a very big step toward achieving what we all want...it might turn out to even be what MLRH should be, what PIHA could be, and what we all wanted RHI to always have been...don't denegrate the effort. We need all of these organizations to make our sport into what we all can become.

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by DannyG on 06/12/03 04:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[wrlpres]

Danny,

I want to thank you for your support of the World Roller League. Our goal is very simple: to bring the sport of Roller Hockey to the forefront of sports. Yes, Roller Hockey will never be at the same level as the NHL, MLB, NBA or NFL, but we want the sport to be at the same level as the National Lacrosse League and Major League Soccer. By doing this we have to take small steps first by creating regional rivalries in different areas across North America.

Again I thank you for your support and I look forward to working with you and your organization in the future.

Marc Lefebvre
President, World Roller league

[missionhockey21]

How many teams do you expect to be based out of Canada?

[missionhockey21]

&gt;&gt;We need all of these organizations to make our sport into what we all can become.

I am starting to see that is true Danny.

[missionhockey21]

I think you guys are realistic and have good goals. I really think you could succeed with proper support from the inline community.

[SpiderRat]

I'm with you on that Danny. What inline needs is dilution. Whether guys play in MLRH, PIHA, Speed Hockey or whatever else is out there, let's get the sport out there. I'm still explaining what inline is and how it differs from ice hockey. Eventually, someone who is serious about bringing the sport to the next level, with "deep pockets" will understand the growth and need for the sport. I believe Speed Hockey will hurt the sport. It will be viewed as another joke league like Pro Beach was. I can't count the number of times people have said to me, oh yea, inline. How do you like playing with that ramp behind you. We need to flood the market and spread the word about inline hockey. And if spreading the word means changing the game, which Speed Hockey is doing by the way, at least it's getting the sport out there.

[wrlpres]

missionhockey21,

I have not set out a goal for any number of teams in either country, Basically, it comes down to how many teams in a region. I would like to see at least 3-4 Canadian teams but that is up to people willing to put forth an organization.

Regards,
Marc Lefebvre
President, World Roller League

[missionhockey21]

Ok thanks, I look foward to the league coming to fruition.^_^

[yokes]

If I had a dollar for every time someone asked about the ramp, well i wouldnt be on here. With the different rules in Speed Hockey it can give someone a false image of the sport.

Its just not fun unless you stand in front of it!

[DannyG]

I really agree with both of you guys above...while we welcome speed hockey in that any exposure is good...

At some point, fellahs...we must allow our sport to stand on its own, without the need to "bastardize" the game. Ya know, I kinda like Slamball, and the players are hard working, fit, hard training, legitimate athletes...but is it really basketball? C'mon! Is it really a legitimate pro sport? Sheesh!

One of my marketing scenario points is that your successful professional inline league must play April through July, playoffs in August, and you don't even refer to it as "inline" hockey...You advertise, promote, get the bobblehead production going, and it's "The Southwest Hockey League; The El Paso Polar Bears vs. the Albuquerque Aardvarks at the Nations-Tobin Municipal Hockey Arena, Saturday night, 7:30 face-off time! Be there."

Period.

You hype the game...Not some manufactured, weird, off-the-wall, WWE, PBH version of the game...deep pockets, and financial stability do nothing if the game is not legitimate...

Period.

(...been a while since I've hit that soapbox, eh?)

<font color=purple>DannyG</font color=purple>

[Superstar9]

I feel ya jay.. Im honestly tired of explaining what inline hockey is and what it is that I do... it gets real old

[RichardGraham]

Hi Super,

Be grateful you're not a synchronized swimmer... /wtimages/icons/wink.gif

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[Superstar9]

thanks for letting the bobblehead idea out danny.. I wanted to be the 1st inline team to make and give them out for promotions... seriously

[Superstar9]

Rich,

hey.. they actually get on tv.. if they didnt, you wouldnt know what it was.. inline needs to get where they already are.. from an exposure standpoint.. it might be better to be a synch. swimmer.. lol

[RichardGraham]

Hi Superstar,

If you're right, we'll get to see Mike Meyers portraying a synchronized swimmer in one of his movies. If I'm right... oh, forget it. /wtimages/icons/shocked.gif

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[Superstar9]

Marc,

In my opinion.. as far as creating local regional rivalries and having a good foundation.. MLRH is already there, its problem is funding and league ownership/ operations.. if someone else were running MLRH or more than one person, and there was better funding.. it would be racing ahead.. I think you should possibly target some of their teams or try to organize teams n those same markets, it may save you years of developement for your league in the states.. just a thought though. Theres a few other leaagues out there that will be doing the same. either way.. good luck to everyone.. too many leagues is better than not enough.. just get the word out

[Superstar9]

lol.. funny

[MDE3]

Bonjour M. Lefebvre from the USA - how is roller doing up in your area anyway? I asked my older son up in Montreal and he didn't seem to know much. Now if it becomes a popular sport again up there - talk about an "undiscovered hotbed" (referring back to an earlier topic)

[MDE3]

Egzactly!!!! The more leagues - the more players - the more exposure, even if this would start out with teams from Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, Buffalo, Detroit, New York, and Boston - you have a very core group. Certainly a meeting of all who aspire to see these leagues work should be a priority. Bill Raue, Benny, M. Lefebvre, Charlie yoder. - Map something out on a regional and rules basis.

[missionhockey21]

That sounds like an excellent idea.

[WMBG_GM]

Before you completely dismiss the MLRH, perhaps you should look more into it. Not from the "I am/was a player" side, but from the team operator side. There has been a huge amount of effort undertaken this off season to improve the "backend" (for lack of a better word).

Not slamming you Superstar9, just wanting to make sure the baby does get tossed with the bath water here. If you are interested in what changes I am talking about, let me know off line and I'll do my best to fill you in.

And, for the record and on topic, I think all these leageus are a "good thing." At a bare minimum it shows that there is truly a broad based interest in seeing pro roller. At best, down the road, the surviving leagues have merger possibilities.

Ben Loyall
GM/Owner
Williamsburg Warriors, MLRH AAA

[SpeedDemon]

Haha, you are exactly right on this point. I don't even mention 'pro' hockey anymore because the first thing out of people's mouthes is:

"Ooooooooh yeah, that thing with the ramps and stuff!"

Doh!

[wrlpres]

Superstar,

I do agree with you that MLRH has created regional rivalries but on the other hand most of the teams in MLRH come from New Jersey, Pennsylvania or Virginia. And of course the new Western Conference with teams in Cali and Colorado. There are so many untapped markets without an elite league. Look at Detroit. Roller Hockey is very strong there and you can create rivalries with teams from Detroit, Port Huron, East Lansing, etc...What I am tryng to do here is to bring the sport to the next level and open peoples eyes as to how truly this sport is.

Marc Lefebvre
President, World Roller League

[wrlpres]

MDE3,

Roller Hockey this way is not to strong but there are those are serious about the sport and its existence. In the Toronto are it is very strong.

Regards,
Marc Lefebvre
President, World Roller League

[missionhockey21]

Last day of school this year some girl asked me what I'll be doing this summer and I told her playing inline hockey. And then she ask; Like on the beach with the neat ramps behind the goalie? I didnt even feel like explaining it that no one plays hockey like that ;-) lol

[yokes]

Marple gives them out to there house league winners.

Its just not fun unless you stand in front of it!

[-venom-]

Didnt Detroit have an NARHL merger-franchise? With like an 'elite' Michigan league?

Thought that all fell apart...

[MDE3]

Have long fantasized about seeing an Inline Hockey Training Facility added to the old "Gray Rocks Resort" (just before Mt. Tremblant coming up from Montreal. Always loved that area. If the sport becomes popular up there - you have a great concentration of talent to pick from - assuming the ice players take it seriously.

[MDE3]

Although for practical reasons it may be too late to look at a merger for this season, but stranger things have been done in MLRH - maybe room for discussion. Maybe look at an Eastern Canada division - Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Hamilton, Kingston, Cornwall, Kitchener/London maybe even Trois Rivieres? Keep the rules the same and add some more depth of talent through trades etc. - over time.

[wrlpres]

MDE3,

Mt. Tremblant is a beautiful area and would be a fantastic place to have a team but as in my other post, Roller Hockey has never developed in Quebec.

Regards,
Marc Lefebvre
President, World Roller League

[Superstar9]

What are they bobbleheads of? hockey obviously. but who?

[MDE3]

They just need to get Les Belles Femmes to show an interest in the sport......

Actually I was never suggesting the area for a team to play out of there, but as a great place to hold a training camp.

[Superstar9]

yeah I totally understand where you are coming from about new areas w/ no elite play.. believe me.. the SW of the states needs it bad as well, its not developed 1/10 of what the east coast is. I was just saying that the MLRH teams/ areas would be a quick, solid START to the league because its already done and most people arent happy w/ the current league. It'd be a good foundation, thats all, I totally agree w/ new markets.. I would be willing to help w/ the south and SW and Im sure I know a few other people that would as well .. DannyG? what ya think? I think this league will do well and can help grow pro players for IHA and speed hockey..

[missionhockey21]

Thats a good point, there is a lot of ice talent up in Canada.

[wrlpres]

Speedster,

thanks for the offer to help with teams in the southwest states. This is what I am talking about. Hitting up new uncovered hot spots.I feel if we can create 3-4 conferences with regional play, we will be able to have a League championship tournament at the end to determine the league champion. Also, I have had talks with Inline Hockey America and we are talking about merging into one governing body.

Regards,
Marc Lefebvre
President, World Roller League

[WMBG_GM]

While I certainly do not speak for the MLRH, if I were given a vote today to do any kind of merger with any other league out there, I'd say no. Today. Down the road, maybe. But not today.

I say that because if last year taught me anything about expansion it is this: If your ducks are not in a row, and you add more ducks, you simply get more duck poop in more places. It is time for us to get our ducks to walk in the same general direction right now ;)

Ben Loyall
GM/Owner
Williamsburg Warriors, MLRH AAA

[MDE3]

I hear what you are saying - but duck poop from another flock is still duck poop.

By trying to coordinate regions with distinct regional management under one roof(ie the current projected management of these new leagues)it may in fact be a more manageable situation than having it all go through the past "eye of the needle" as has happened with MLRH.

Setting up a more diverse, but coordinated management with new people - would strengthen - not weaken the effort. This assumes all partners can come to a basic "rules of the game"/"stadium venue"/"marketing and development" agreement prior to any contractual commitments.

For example - I know that Charlie Yoder is willing to talk - and even discuss rules compromises - if it will better the marketability of the game.

A general meeting of the minds is definitely in order. A broad national development movement would be much more powerfull than the splintered and competing efforts we will soon see. I can see much energy being spent in the next few years discussing the merits of one league versus another, one set of rules versus another - player bases, geographical rights, compensation issues, advertizing, and if one of these leagues offers a more attractive package for the players - what will that do to the development of these other leagues and their talent base?

These issues will come to the forefront sooner than you can imagine if these other leagues get up and running - as it appears they will. Not to discourage them from evolving but to encourage their growth and development - it's very important to have an achievable goal and tangible participation by the new league management. The sport as a whole needs an NGB !!!!! Maybe start with the elite level - and work backwards through the whole sport.

Creating multiple splinter groups at the "league" level will result in the same situation as now occurs at the tournament level.

By trying to coordinate a single elite/pro league system which can have regional autonomy except for rules, stadium and compensation issues, the overall marketing costs will be reduced. Promotion of the league on a national basis will be supported by a much broader earnings base - and therefor cost less for the individual organizations. In addition the public focus will not be confused by all these different leagues. There will be one version of the game, not four or five. There will be a league indentity and a "product" identity - which you will fail to have with all these other "National Championships" being pronounced.

Roller hockey needs a clear cut identity to be marketed to the public - not some watered down, confused, multi faceted picture which no one can take seriously.

Right now, whether pro, amateur, elite, youth or which ever venue we look at - there is nothing but confusion to those who do not know all the "ins and outs" of this sport, it's history and politic - and even if you think you do, it is still a confusing mess. The LAST thing this sport needs is a more splintered picture - read marketing 101!!!!!

I would beseach all of you who are trying in good faith to have roller hockey developed to a higher level in your regions - to get together NOW with all the others who basically want the same thing. Just like the game itself - the team concept is much stronger than the sum of the individual talents. Maybe because the game of roller hockey has in some ways promoted the development of individual play more than team work - at least until later on in the process - we are seeing a similar phenomenon happening in the development of the sport itself - a whole lot of "players" who think they can do it all by themselves!!!!!

[Rebecca]

<font color=blue>MDE3: FABULOUS post.

as far as NGB though (a subject I am all up in), by the nature of business, I don't see it happening. Well, I do in the future when the 2 large names come together if that ever happens (USAHIL and AAU-USARS) or one just grows large enough somehow and fulfills all the needs of all those playing. NARCh is great and fills the void for competitive hockey, specifically for adults but by doing so, they retain their own seperate status and I don't see it being NGB. Also, the actual term NGB is a real legal definition that is really diluted with the constant use of it. NGB can only be declared under the olympic committee empowered by the Sports Act of 1978.

As far as all the 'pro' leagues and elite leagues: They will all just keep spinning because they are all competing, as that is the nature of business. And they can all say they are trying to better the sport blah blah blah, but in the end they are all ultimately trying to find the right equation to make some money. Its like Long Island - 14 inline facilities in less then a 50 mile radius - each one thinking they are the most successful. No problem with making money but in order to do so, each one has to offer something new or different that would make you choose 'them' over 'the other' and will therefore never unite. When one is functional enough or large enough to capture all the talent in some way, then we will see what happens. Meanwhile, in roller hockey in general, people can't even decide on what constitutes talent no less the rules which tend to go hand in hand.

Rebecca

http://community.webshots.com/sym/image5/8/3/85/67580385LGfyvC_ph.jpg

[Benny_Gulakiw]

Rebecca,

I respect your opinion, but I feel that you have a very myopic and uninformed view of what's actually happening behind the scenes at the elite league level.

Benny Gulakiw
President
Inline Hockey America

[RichardGraham]

Lucy,

'splain yourself! /wtimages/icons/wink.gif

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[WMBG_GM]

Mike,

I can not say too much more in this forum, but, in "round numbers" as the engineers like to say, MLRH is retooling. Ground up. Not the players & teams, but at the league level. Without saying specifics, I will say that there are absolutely no sacred cows in this. Everything from the mission statement on down is being looked at, and either tossed, reworked or kept as is. It should come as no suprise that this work started in the middle of last season.

Basically our goal is this: Make the trains come and go, on time, every time. Last season we had way to many trainwrecks! Why? That is what we are trying to solve. I personally think we are going to give it one hell of a go. As the details come out I can promise you many folks in here will say "I told you so!" And just as many will likely say "What!? Are you NUTS!?" :) Please note: This is almost all about the biz side of running a team/league. The actual playing of the game is the same. If we have done our work right, the only thing the teams and the players should notice is a lack of news. Just who won and who lost.

Now, after all this work, the last thing I can see as benificial would be, while we havn't yet proven to ourselves that this is the right way, to talk merger with somebody. And to be honest, the closest person to talk to would be Charlie Y with PIHA. I don't mean closest as in distance but as in he (and PIHA) is (are) going along the same path as we are. But, even so, Charlie is (this is a WAG) currently fighting the same battle we are. Making the trains come & go on time. The other two leagues haven't dropped a puck yet. I really hope they do and I hope they continue to drop them long enough to get stable, cause then we are going somewhere.

Quite frankly, the league that gets itself orginized best will rule the day. No doubt about it. Look all around you, examples of this are everywhere, both in sport and out.

Ben Loyall
GM/Owner
Williamsburg Warriors, MLRH AAA

[MDE3]

I understand from a logistics viewpoint that an immediate incorporation of a new league or two is not done at the flip of a phone cover, but the discussions should begin immediately - at least on the commonality of rules. In the long run it would be much easier if these leagues ran under one aegis - maybe as autonomous divisions of say 4 - 6 teams each. Have only a partial interlocking schedule between neighbouring divisions to keep the pot stirred and the travel costs down. I personally do not care which handle is used to run under, but the one with the most name recognition(even though it's not a lot) at this point is still MLRH. At least discussions together would help individuals who are afraid of past management define whether they want to pursue a merger, and certainly help avoid pitfalls that many of you have already seen from past attempts to make this all work. With some of the changes you are trying to invoke in the running of MLRH, there may be a chance to overcome past differences - which I'm sure for the moment are some of the incentives for the "new leagues" which are trying to form.

[WMBG_GM]

Mike,

I agree with you in almost all places here cept for the lack of inter-divisional play. I feel it is needed for many reasons including respectability and marketability. Last year when speaking to sponsors it really got their attention to say "We play next weekend in LA". Not saying every game should be coast to coast, but travel is a requirement.

Ben Loyall
GM/Owner
Williamsburg Warriors, MLRH AAA

[yokes]

I would agree with Ben, some teams dont feel much respect for some others because they dont get a chance to play them. Next year I hope Marple will get every top team out there on their schedule. For example last year we didnt face Conneticut at all and didnt see the Elephants till the Finals, two teams I would of liked to have seen during the season.

Its just not fun unless you stand in front of it!

[MDE3]

This post is in answer to both Ben and Yokes post - so I don't have to repeat myself.

I'm not sure what was unclear in my last post about "partial interlocking schedule between neighbouring divisions", but all I excluded was expensive West Coast Travel. Question: Did the sponsors whose attention you got by mentioning the East /West swing - contibute enough to pay the costs of that swing? I think a higher, more consistant caliber of play(like weeding out a too high concentration of teams in a condensed area like NJ) by replacing some existing teams with teams from hard core hockey centers in Canada and the Central region, ie. Buffalo, Detroit, Chicago, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal etc), a more rigid(read professional) adherence to "Bye-Laws", and a hard push to get local television coverage, will do far more for the credibilty of the league, than East West trips.

So have two or three &quot;closer&quot; divisions and interdivisional play as I mentioned. Like a Canadian division from Ontario/Quebec, and a Central/Midwest division, a Northeast division and a Mid-Atlantic division. Out West - a Northwest and Southwest Division. Eventually a South Central and South division.

Look I'm sure you guys have already batted this around, but good rivalries do not have to be East /West. By having local Division rivalries evolve - it is much better than playing a team once a year maybe(a la West Coast trips). This way you can still keep the costs in line, and have interdivisional play. I hear what you say when approaching sponsors about being able to talk about going out to&quot;LA&quot; to play a league game, but going to Chicago or Detroit might have almost as much worth.

By bringing these new &quot;leagues&quot; under one aegis, you srengthen all of the organizations. What has to be overcome is some very skeptical past history. Obviously there are some business compromises that must be made by the individuals involved. But a smaller piece of a profitable operation is much better than a large liability from a smaller and non profitable one.

How many teams this year will be willing to pay for a &quot;West coast swing&quot; or vica versa?

[MDE3]

Hi Rebecca - thanks for the nod, but what I am suggesting in that post, is that a large united &quot;professional/elite&quot; league may actually have more success forcing an NGB, than all the current lobbying between competing private entities can accomplish. By having a united Professional League system with a common set of rules - the aspirations of the youth players will put pressure on all the current competing entities to tow the line. When the kids can aspire to be part of a larger professional picture - the importance of all these other organizations will be significantly diminished. What is currently missing in Inline Hockey - is &quot;the dream&quot; (or at least one that has any hope of financial significance - ie playing the sport for a living) for so many of the kids and their parents who support them. Give them &quot;the dream&quot; and it will become amazingly simple to get the sport to unite.

On another point you are very right. There are too many versions and concepts of what makes the sport appealing -everyone is trying to find a magical key to make their version more appealing than their competitors. The whole thing is not that complex.

What will make the sport appealing is simple and NOT related to as much to the rules as it is to the theater. What makes the sport appealing is not more goals or less goals, not fighting of itself or even contact of itself. Not spectacular stick work nor magical team play. What makes the sport appealing is what is true of every publically viewed contest. We want to marvel at talented competitors but most of all we want to see drama and the heart of great humans who overcome adversity - period. In the case of Hockey - it has always been a physical contest - and for this drama to hold the attention of it's spectators the contestants must be percieved to be able to overcome the challenges of very physical play as well as extreme skill. There must be no doubt that these contestants are "putting it all on the line" when they meet and that these are the "best there are".

When you look at the totality of what is viewed in the broad spectrum of sport and what is successfull on television and what is popular, it is not one rule or specific skill element of the contest that makes it appealing to watch. It is the drama and the heart it takes to prevail!!! The better the competitors, the higher the level of drama and the more significant the effort (heart) needed to win. That's what it is all about. We want to see heroes.

[Benny_Gulakiw]

Hi Rich,

I simply took umbridge with Rebecca's statement:


&quot;As far as all the 'pro' leagues and elite leagues: They will all just keep spinning because they are all competing, as that is the nature of business. And they can all say they are trying to better the sport blah blah blah, but in the end they are all ultimately trying to find the right equation to make some money.&quot;


As a league operator, I am therefore included in her statement and I took offense (she can tell me in private all she wants that she's offended, but at the risk of sounding juvenile, she started it). Putting all that aside, yes, money is a factor in everybody's equation, but it's not a prohibiting factor in people's desire to join forces. I'm not sure if you truly realize the influence that you and this web site have on the roller hockey industry. The fans express their opinions on this message board and guess what, the industry is listening.

There IS a movement in the very early stages where a number of people in many sectors of the roller hockey industry have expressed their desire to sit down together to see if there is a way to work together. The next 6 to 8 weeks should be very interesting. I am hestitant to say any more as I'm sure most of you will understand the situation. I didn't even want to say anything at all, but I feel I was called out.

And don't call me Lucy!;)


Benny Gulakiw
President
Inline Hockey America

[wrlpres]

Benny,

I am in the same boat as you. I also took offence to Rebecca's comments. All we, league operators, ask for is a little support. All of us are trying to come together and bring the sport of roller hockey to a higher level.

Regards,
Marc Lefebvre
President, World Roller League

[RichardGraham]

Hi Benny,

I agree with you that money is not always the ultimate reason why people get involved in inline hockey. Passion for the sport is often the main reason. If I'd started Inline Hockey Central solely to make money, I'd have quit a long time ago. /wtimages/icons/shocked.gif

I am not sure IHC has as much influence on the industry as you say, however. Public opinion on these boards has strongly favored one national governing body for the sport since day one, and obviously, that eventuality still seems a long way off. Often, it has seemed that the industry has ignored the existence of Inline Hockey Central. However, I believe that is beginning to change, as more and more inline hockey players and administrators utilize IHC as an information source... and bully pulpit /wtimages/icons/smile.gif

&gt;&gt;And don't call me Lucy! ;)&lt;&lt;

OK. I won't. /wtimages/icons/cool.gif

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[WMBG_GM]

Mike,

No, you were clear, I just missed it :) I just saw it on the reread. &lt;sigh&gt; That is probably a sign that I need to quit staring at CRTs so much. Either that or drink more ;)

Cost-wise, Chicago & Detroit are LA :) Basically anything that is west of Memphis is remarkably close in price (at least from here in southern VA). Right now we go where the teams are. Keep in mind that MLRH AAA is rooted in a &quot;geographically&quot; based team system. The market is changing that, but that is occuring now, very slowly. Not until players are getting a wage are we going to see many guys do a Mike Francis. (For those not in the know, Mike &quot;moved&quot; from MI to VA for the season.) The first thing will be the &quot;fly-in&quot; lines ala Marty's Storm.

And, this may seem flippant but it isn't meant to be, in the eyes of who really count, those East vs West games do far more for the league than fixing our warts. What do I mean by that? I get the attention of my local sportspage writer much easier saying &quot;Williamsburg X, West Coast team Y&quot; than I do with a divisional game. I also grab that sponsor's attention much faster as well. And neither of those two groups is currently close enough to the sport to know that my ducks are a'scattering. The big key word there is &quot;currently&quot; That will hopefully change. You and I, and the rest of here on IHC are pretty much &quot;insiders&quot; and the warts are much bigger to us. To the fan from outside, they are not quite so apparent.

Now do not read the above and think that I feel we can go on as we have, we can not. Nobody involved in the MLRH feels that way. The point I'm hopefully making is that (IMHO) the fan we are trying to reach is fairly programmed in that &quot;pro&quot; sports are played on a national level. Heck, it is routine for east-west matchups in almost all college sports. Many high school teams are going over 200 miles to play a game. That is a big thing we (as a sport at large) have to overcome to even get looked at by a lot of people. It seems stupid, but it is (again IMHO) a true thing.

Of course you do have to keep in mind that my view on this is pretty slanted. The Warriors are 3.5 hours south of the closest MLRH team. Every travel game is a haul for us :)

Darn it, this was going to be short! sorry,

Ben Loyall
GM/Owner
Williamsburg Warriors, MLRH AAA<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by WMBG_GM on 06/16/03 08:07 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

[Rebecca]

8000 posts here, many giving their own opinions, and many are very insulting, yet you take favor with mine? Give me a break please and try to grow some skin. You're going to need to get used to it in this industry.

My post was not directed personally at anyone nor personally insulting, yet last time I checked "I respect your opinion" and "myopic and uninformed" used in the same sentence is just pure insulting, antonyms actually. Let's add "jeuvenile" and "shortsighed" to the insults thrown at me and then tell me I should respect your intentions after you personalize posts at me?

If your intentions are so noble, then why fragment even further? Why not just support MRLH or PIHA or whoever already is trying hard to grow an elite or pro league.

My opinion has merit and anyone anywhere can back it up with the amounts of leagues that come and go.

As far as the money comment, in stating my point, did I fault you or anyone for trying to make money? Facts are facts. Aren't most people at least trying to make a living, pay the bills, put the kids through college. I know that I am at that point now where I do need to have a salary. No one faults me or you for that, but no get rich schemes here-no need for me to explain the countless hours I devote and the sacrafices I have made for hockey. Others are looking for the get-rich potential.

Mr. Lefebvre, I am sorry if you took offense to my post, but did you take the same offense to the other 100 here in the past year that say the same thing or did you just want to jump on Benny's wagon also? What about the few here in this actual thread? Or is it just mine because I dont beat around the bush? Sure hope its not becasue I am female or because my name sticks out in green or because I post in blue, or whatever set you off on me. If Benny wants to make it personal since he has had an adventageous ability to do so after having worked with me, then let him keep it off the board.

Perhaps you OR Benny will be the one to succeed and perhaps you will improve the situation, and I can only hope you are involved because you love this sport. But I don't assume anything after my experiences in inline and business (which are plenty).

So Mr. Lefebvre, I do apologize, as my post was not personally directed at you. I don't even know you. If you would love to chat sometime and tell me why I should or anyone should support your league, I would love to hear with an open mind and open ears.

Thanks Benny /wtimages/icons/wink.gif



Rebecca

http://community.webshots.com/sym/image5/8/3/85/67580385LGfyvC_ph.jpg

[columbus_RHstar]

Definitley! My high school sent our softball team to California and Florida, and payed for them to stay at the Hilton. Then they sent the boys and girls volleyball teams to North Carolina, Texas and Utah, they stayed at the Hilton as well. granted all 3 were ranked top 3 in the state all season until losing at states.

If my high school can afford that and be on the front page of the paper people recognize, and are intrigued to see how the local boys/girls did agaisnt a team that they would normally would not play, ever. Then why wouldn't the same thing be true for inline.


Basically I'm saying that cross-country games are much more intriguing to the average person then division, just look at interleague play in baseball.

[wrlpres]

Rebecca,

I did not take your post as a personal attack but rather one on those who are trying to improve the sport.

Regards,
Marc Lefebvre
President, World Roller League

[Benny_Gulakiw]

Rebecca,

No one is attacking you because you're a women or you post in colors other than black or any other reason than the specific words you wrote. I have gone back and re-read the other posts and no said anything like what you said here:


"And they can all say they are trying to better the sport blah blah blah, but in the end they are all ultimately trying to find the right equation to make some money."


I wasn't upset that you accused me or anyone else of trying to make money. I am upset and took offense to the fact in the specific sentence above, that when I or anyone else talks about bettering the sport (blah, blah, blah) that we are insincere about it. That our only intention is to make as much money as possible. That's it. That's all. For some reason, you have always been suspicious of me and my intentions and now, with that one statement, you've thrown a blanket over everybody ("...they can all say they're trying to better the sport blah, blah, blah..."). Well, I can say you're uninformed without trying to be insulting because of the personal conversations I have had over the last couple of weeks with just about everyone you generalized about who are all willing to put aside their desire to make money in order to sit down in a room together to see how we can all work together to make the sport better. Unfortunately, all you hear is "blah, blah, blah".

I think almost all the other posts in this thread are intelligent comments about the state of the sport and where they think it should go. As I said in my original reply to your post, you are entitled to your opinion, but as President of the ECRHA, I think people expect more from you than generalizations and assumptions about people's intentions.

On another issue, where is all this fragmentation that everyone keeps talking about. This is a big country, and an even bigger continent when you include Canada, and many parts are currently underserved. Here's what you got so far:

MLRH-AAA - winter season, checking league, Atlantic Coast, Northeast, West Coast
PIHA - summer season, non-check, Tri-State (NY, NJ, PA)
IHA-Elite - summer season, checking, Great Lakes
WRL - summer season, non-checking, primarily Canada

I know Rich mentioned another possible league and I think it might be focused on the West Coast. And I'm sorry but Speed Hockey appears to different enough that I am not including it in the list above. These small, regional leagues have the ability to provide opportunities for roller hockey players to play at an elite level in their specific geographic region. To the best of my understanding, with the exception of whether a league has checking or not, most of these leagues follow the same basic rules and play the game the same way. Based on this, if everyone concentrates on making their league, in their area, the best it can be, consolidation is the next natural course of action and the people who are running these are starting to see this. I absolutely agree with some of Ben Loyall's statements in some previous posts in this thread. We're a ways away from that happening. Some leagues may not make it that far. But if we all just worry about our own house, those that are left standing will want to join forces.

The way I see it, there's room for everybody. I think there should be a summer elite league with checking and one without and a winter league with checking and one without and until someone finds that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, this should all be done on a regional basis to keep costs down, until the time comes when we can all sit down and join forces. I don't see this as fragmentation. I see it as part of the growth cycle and there have been several posts in this thread who see the development of new leagues as a positive thing not a negative.

Benny Gulakiw
President
Inline Hockey America

[Superstar9]

Hey Ben,

How u think I felt last season, even my home games were 6 hours away.. travel was crazy for me.

[Rebecca]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

As I said in my original reply to your post, you are entitled to your opinion, but as President of the ECRHA, I think people expect more from you than generalizations and assumptions about people's intentions.

<hr></blockquote>


<font color=blue>Guess I am not entitled to my opinion then since you just had to bring ECRHA into to it assuming that EVERYONE in the sun knows what league I am affiliated with. I didn't post on behalf of ECRHA, I posted on behalf of myself. I am entitled to have a life and opinion outside of ECRHA that is not reflective of or reflected on ECRHA. We are not one in the same. ECRHA is run by a very capable Board.

I assume that many are intelligent enough to know when I am posting as a person, as opposed to when I represent the league (because I usually say so when I am delivering info for the league and my posts are totally different). Perhaps you don't know the difference and it bothers you? Or perhaps I just bother you? Which is it?

Gees, do I live under a microscope?
and as far as the "blah blah blah", that is what we are beginning to sound like, so this is it for me.

Serves me right eh?


Rebecca

http://community.webshots.com/sym/image5/8/3/85/67580385LGfyvC_ph.jpg

[rlrhky13]

I know the feeling its 7 hours for me too... Just to home games

[MBurke]

&lt;i&gt;Disclaimer:&lt;/i&gt; This post is not intended to single out, generalize, offend, insult, belittle, patronize or put down anyone on the board or any of the previous posts - what follows are my opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

It is VERY easy to talk about national unity, starting up new leagues, and the great future this game has. Unfortunately, as those of us who have been on the IHC boards for a long time know well, most of what we read on here turns out to be little more than propoganda. Many of the purported "pro" leagues that are supposed to surface, thrive, and change the face of the sport have not lived up to expectations.

Speaking as a person who has been involved in the sport for over ten years in just about every facet of the game, including league management, officiating, and playing, I find it difficult to take anything other than a pessimistic view of many of the new leagues cropping up. After being let down so many times, can you blame me? Most of the friends I have in the inline hockey community (mainly college players at this point) seem to agree.

There's a pervasive feeling that new leagues that crop up each want to find a way to "build a better mouse trap". As such, with fairly major differences in game play, rules, facilities and season structure, is it hard to blame anyone on this board from being skeptical about the likelihood of all the major pro and semi-pro factions coming together for one uniform set of rules and regulations?

Pro Beach and Speed Hockey are beneficial in a sense, but I feel that their widespread marketing and appeal will ultimately detract from the progress that "pure" roller hockey will make with the public. As many have pointed out, I, too, have spent countless hours explaining that my version of roller hockey doesn't have ramps and isn't played with a ball.

I guess the real proof won't come for some time. I'd love to see MLRH, PIHA, IHA, WRH, etc. (sorry if I'm leaving out anyone that I can't think of at the moment) succeed in the long run, but the real key is that, although there may be room for all of these different entities to coexist, a summit to unify the rules of this sport MUST come soon.

Prove that the effort and capability to create such a system is out there, and you'll make believers out of all of us and have a great chance of succeeding. None of us WANT these things to fail, we've just seen too many halfhearted/disorganized attempts made to believe every new incarnation that comes along.

That said, I don't think Rebecca's posts are a personal attack or a false generalization of every pro league out there. She (and many others here, I might add, self included) simply knows how hard it is to keep a league afloat, much less one that pays the bills and compensates its employees properly for their efforts. It would be absolutely ludicrous to think that anyone doesn't want to see professional roller hockey succeed. You can call being skeptical of each shiny new organization an attack, short-sighted, whatever you'd like; I consider it to be a prudent, realistic approach for the time being.

Mike Burke
Commissioner
Eastern Collegiate Roller Hockey Association
http://www.ecrha.net

[MDE3]

Excellent summation!!

It's this aforementioned scepticism and disapointment that also hinders the unification of the sport. It is understandable after so many false starts, that one or several individuals want to try to make their personal vision(s) of the sport succeed - to grab the bull by the horns and show the world how it should be done right, and in addition fill a local need for adult elite inline hockey.

What is most encouraging is that this is happening simultaneously on several fronts. This serendipitous circumstance should be seized upon immediately in an attempt to crystalize these efforts into a true National League, with realistic discussions about commonality of rules, geographic territories, commonality of facilities needed, maybe a contributory money pool to help pay for cross country &quot;interleague&quot; or hopefully &quot;interdivisional&quot; play.

A clear identity of the sport must be established for it to be marketed. When you think of the other major sports, there is one version of the game that comes to mind. That there are spin offs of these games which can feed off the hunger of an estabished fan base is only a reflection of how well established the primary sport has become.

Roller/Inline hockey still needs that &quot;primary&quot; establishment before multiple variations can be palatable to a fan base, but more importantly - even before a fan base can be created. The sport is fast approaching a second wind - interestingly more on the adult and mature adolescent levels than at the primary youth levels. The time is now to put aside the scepticism and disapointment and genuinely try to find common ground to take advantage of this momentum.

Looking at our collection of posts on the subject at hand -it becomes obvious how sensitive we all are to our vision of the sport, and the direction it is going or should go. What IS common to all who have posted - is the desire to see the sport anchored and established. As I mentioned in an earlier post - inline hockey has at it's core a sense of the maverick and as such draws individuals who are to some degree in love with their own independant thinking (and at some point playing I would wager). The time is come in this sport for the &quot;players&quot; to mature - as they do when they move up into the ranks of the elite in the game itself - and coalesce into a team.

[missionhockey21]

I agree, and that is a very valid point about interleague play. Cross country games will generate more hype.

[flyersindc]

Ben, that's probably the best description of rapid expansion I've ever heard!!! LOL!!!

jim



http://www.mlrh.com/images/crunch_sm.gif

[MDE3]

May I ask where this "hype" should be generated? In what media? Among ourselves? Who talks about MLRH or PIHA or IHA, or WHRL yet outside the "community"? How may people even know it exists or what it is?

Not intended to belittle the concept of raising the awareness level, but there is so much more groundwork to do to "generate hype" at a national level - much of which takes money, that spending sums to have intecontinental games seems to me like an imprudent expenditure.

Could that same money not be used to take out ads in major newspapers and really generate some direct hype? Have some articles written for major sport magazines expounding the resurgence of inline hockey "breaking through" to the Pro levels. Articles written about the sudden "explosion" of new leagues forming, incorporate part of the arcticle from USA Hockey magazine about "exploding the myths about roller hockey". Get some media coverage for the sport in a major venue if we want to generate hype. Talk about National Playoffs with the best Teams from the Western Division playing the best teams from the Eastern Division to give the sense of a true continental League.

If the WRHL league and IHA could be incorporated into the picture, then you can hype international play and growth as well - creating similar credibility - without having to spend nearly as much. There's a variety of ways to generate more hype for the money IMHO.

The industry as a whole needs to be made aware that the sport even exists at these elite levels - look at the reaction in here from people when Richard changed the post heading to "Professional Roller Hockey" - "what - there is pro roller hockey?"

Because so many of us are deeply involved with this sport and often through this board, we tend to see the sport through much different eyes than the average player or fan. We assume a level of awareness that is not out there because we talk daily about these issues in a very small community.

Obviously I am not opposed to creating hype, and generating credibility for the sport - that is a mandatory fuction of development. However it is equally important that all concerned fully grasp how limited the budgets are at this point and how important it is to spend these limited promotional funds effectively. For this sport to draw support, sponsors and investors, the most important issues will be "a love of the game, a belief in it's growth potential, and a vision of it's financial viability" - not necessarily in that order. Promotions which address these issues will be the most effective in securing investors with the real capability of generating major support. If under close scrutiny a potential investor looks at money spent unwisely - he will immediately begin to lose confidence in the management leading the venture. A love of the game is not enough to draw the support that is needed, nor is creating a belief in it's growth potential. A cohesive, well managed business plan developed out of these first two factors, promoting an easy to grasp, well defined product will go much further than casting money upon the waters in hopes of creating an illusion of prosperity and drawing in a few fish.

By having a growth plan that leaves local leagues the autonomy to earn money from their "sector" but still be part of a "National League" through some fair level of contibution, a much more appealing picture can be portrayed to potential investors on multilple levels.

The concept that one is getting in on the ground floor of a major development in a sport which has the vision to be both National and local, which allows players to play the same game and fans to expect the same thing wherever they view it, will be much more attractive than knowing one version of elite inline hockey has a couple of intercontinental games.

Also with a game plan like this - the elite levels of the sport can continue to draw new developers like Mr. Lefebvre, and Mr. Gulikaw expanding the sport in a controlled fashion, but allowing them to still focus on the local scene, not be saddled with major financial obligations (such as intercontinental travel) before they can support it. Their contributions to "the league" could be limited to a mangeable "promotional fee" which in return would give them the stature of belonging to a widely accepted National League - piggy backing on it's national promotional programs.

Sorry about the "Tirade" Mission, but I really want to use every opportunity to push a national Men's Elite/"Pro to be" program which has a viable and consolidated vision.

[NLane]

Our papers will print high school stuff but not non-pro adult events. You can send the score in and they'll list it but that's about all.

[dcdawgs]

If you would like a Washington D.C. team, I would be more than interested in helping out.
I will send you an email

Josh Larson

[RichardGraham]

Hi MD,

Excellent post. Extremely well argued. Keep up the good work.

Sincerely,

Richard Graham
Editor
Inline Hockey Central

[MDE3]

Hi Rich ........I can almost see Danny from this altitude.